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lottie2
Junior
Member
Joined: Apr 06, 2014
Posts: 168
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 Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:10 am
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deadend wrote:
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I HAVE
DECIDED TO POST A LITTLE HISTORY ON THE ELI/CARVER
CROSS,BUT WHEN I SAY CROSS IM
BASICALLY MEANING INBRED ON A (DOMINATE TRAIT). OKAY
NOW WHEN IT COMES TO ELI CARVER SOME PEOPLE WONDER WHY
THIS CROSS WORKS SO WELL. IM GONNA START OFF WITH THE
BOUDREAUX LINE, FLOYD STARTED WITH BLINDBILLY AS HIS
STUD DOG AND IN MY BOOK YOU COULDN'T ASK FOR BETTER
DIBO BLOOD. BLINDBILLY'S SIRE WAS TUDOR'S DIBO AND HIS
DAM WAS TUDORS MIMMIE WHICH WAS A DAUGHTER OF CH.
ARIZONA PETE WICH WAS A LITTERMATE BROTHER TO DIBO BUT
A PROVEN CH. ,PETE WAS BRED
BACK TO HIS AND DIBOS MOTHER BAMBI TO PRODUCE MIMMIE.SO
BLINDBILLY'S GENETICS CONSISTED OF THE PERFORMANCE AND
PRODUCTIVITY, PETE WAS A PROVEN CHAMP AND DIBO WAS A
PROVEN PRODUCER, SO FLOYD MADE A WISE CHOICE USING
BLINDBILLY AS HIS FOUNDATION STUD.TO SUM IT UP
BLINDBILLY WAS A RESULT OF DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE.
NOW I'M GONNA SHIFT OVER TO THE CARVER BLOOD, THE
FOUNDATION TO THE CARVER BLOOD IS WHEN HE BRED DIBO TO
BLACKWIDOW BACK THEN CARVER NOTICE THAT THE
DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BREEDING PRODUCED ALOTS OF LATE
STARTERS, WHICH DIBO DIDNOT CRANK UNTIL HE WAS THREE
YEARS OLD SO TO ILLIMUNATE THIS HE CROSSED HIS DIBO
/BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE ED. CRENSHAW BLOOD. IT
BASICALLY GAVE HIS BLOOD WHAT IT NEEDED. BOTH BREEDERS
STARTED WITH CONCENTRATED DIBO BLOOD, FLOYD'S
FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE(BLINDBILLY)
& CARVERS FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS
GRANDAUGHTER( CARVER'S DEE, AND HER LITTERMATES THAT
CAME FROM THAT PARTICULAR BREEDING THAT WAS USED,
CARVER ALSO CROSSED HIS DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE
HEINZL BLOOD COMING THREW FRITZWATER'S GOLDIE AND DID
SUPERER WELL. SO BOTH BREEDERS STARTED OUT HEAVY ON THE
DIBO BLOOD AND WHEN DOG MEN HAVE TAKEN THE TWO STRAINS
AND CROSS THEM TOGETHER ALL THE OLD TRAITS COME BACK UP
FRONT. MANY BREEDERS HAVE FOUND THIER LINE OF CHOICE
THREW THIS CROSS, TO NAME A FEW, RONALD BOYLES, TOM
GARNER ALTHOUGH HE DIDNOT BREED
CHINAMAN, ALSO GR CH. SPIKE.LOPASAY'S BUSTER, GRND. CH.
RAGHEAD, THERE ARE MANY OTHER GREAT ELI/CARVER DOGS
THAT I DIDNOT MENTION THAT WERE BRED AND LEFT AN IMPACT
ON THE GAME. ONE THING I CAN SAY ABOUT A DAM GOOD
ELI/CARVER DOG,THEM MOTHER
FUCKERS DONT JUST GET DOWN THEY GOT KILLING ON THIER
MIND. THOSE THAT KNOW WILL AGREE 100%
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DID NOT ASK TO SHOW YOUR PEDS
... IF YOU DO SHOW PED WHAT DID THEY DO,,,
(PRODUCE) SIRE AN DAM. SCHOOL WAS IN DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING.
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_________________
NO/PUPS SOLD OR GIVEN AWAY ARE TO BE USED IN ANY ACTIVITY
PROHIBITED BY THE ANIMAL WELFARE ACT OF 1976 OR ANY OTHER
STATE OR MUNICIPAL LAWS OR ORDINANCES. DUE TO THE 2007
ANIMAL FIGHTING PROHIBITION ENFORCEMENT ACT.FEDERAL
ANIMAL WELFARE ACT
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klow
Junior
Member
Joined: Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 223
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:08 am
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lottie2
Junior
Member
Joined: Apr 06, 2014
Posts: 168
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:40 am
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Oldbruiser
Newbie
Joined: Dec 19, 2010
Posts: 58
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:59 am
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If it ain't broke don't fix it.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=461835
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=499009
Carver implemented the Eli blood into his stock after
watching Eli JR. and that prompted him to get Bullyson on
his yard. When he blended the Eli into his bloodline it
became another piece. In actuality the breeding's he made
make it carver blood with no emphasis on Eli unless you
have infused another source free of his influence. You
could say Butcherboy x Carver just as easily. All the
winning dogs he could get his hands on in those days got
blended in. Including Mayfields stuff thru the Nigger
dog. Those same combinations from the rite place continue
to impress but it wasn't just Eli its
the combo. Arts Missy and Miss Spike where probably more
influential in the good ones that left his yard. Infact
Ed Crenshaw probably had more to do with Carvers success
than Carver did himself.
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Last edited by Oldbruiser on Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:14 pm;
edited 1 time in total
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klow
Junior
Member
Joined: Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 223
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:11 am
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nightflight
Newbie
Joined: Mar 06, 2014
Posts: 1
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:42 am
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Already
Junior
Member
Joined: Jul 24, 2008
Posts: 217
Location: INTERNATIONAL
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:08 pm
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deadend wrote:
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I HAVE
DECIDED TO POST A LITTLE HISTORY ON THE ELI/CARVER
CROSS,BUT WHEN I SAY CROSS IM
BASICALLY MEANING INBRED ON A (DOMINATE TRAIT). OKAY
NOW WHEN IT COMES TO ELI CARVER SOME PEOPLE WONDER WHY
THIS CROSS WORKS SO WELL. IM GONNA START OFF WITH THE
BOUDREAUX LINE, FLOYD STARTED WITH BLINDBILLY AS HIS
STUD DOG AND IN MY BOOK YOU COULDN'T ASK FOR BETTER
DIBO BLOOD. BLINDBILLY'S SIRE WAS TUDOR'S DIBO AND HIS
DAM WAS TUDORS MIMMIE WHICH WAS A DAUGHTER OF CH.
ARIZONA PETE WICH WAS A LITTERMATE BROTHER TO DIBO BUT
A PROVEN CH. ,PETE WAS BRED
BACK TO HIS AND DIBOS MOTHER BAMBI TO PRODUCE MIMMIE.SO
BLINDBILLY'S GENETICS CONSISTED OF THE PERFORMANCE AND
PRODUCTIVITY, PETE WAS A PROVEN CHAMP AND DIBO WAS A
PROVEN PRODUCER, SO FLOYD MADE A WISE CHOICE USING
BLINDBILLY AS HIS FOUNDATION STUD.TO SUM IT UP
BLINDBILLY WAS A RESULT OF DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE.
NOW I'M GONNA SHIFT OVER TO THE CARVER BLOOD, THE
FOUNDATION TO THE CARVER BLOOD IS WHEN HE BRED DIBO TO
BLACKWIDOW BACK THEN CARVER NOTICE THAT THE
DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BREEDING PRODUCED ALOTS OF LATE
STARTERS, WHICH DIBO DIDNOT CRANK UNTIL HE WAS THREE
YEARS OLD SO TO ILLIMUNATE THIS HE CROSSED HIS DIBO
/BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE ED. CRENSHAW BLOOD. IT
BASICALLY GAVE HIS BLOOD WHAT IT NEEDED. BOTH BREEDERS
STARTED WITH CONCENTRATED DIBO BLOOD, FLOYD'S
FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE(BLINDBILLY)
& CARVERS FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS
GRANDAUGHTER( CARVER'S DEE, AND HER LITTERMATES THAT
CAME FROM THAT PARTICULAR BREEDING THAT WAS USED,
CARVER ALSO CROSSED HIS DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE
HEINZL BLOOD COMING THREW FRITZWATER'S GOLDIE AND DID
SUPERER WELL. SO BOTH BREEDERS STARTED OUT HEAVY ON THE
DIBO BLOOD AND WHEN DOG MEN HAVE TAKEN THE TWO STRAINS
AND CROSS THEM TOGETHER ALL THE OLD TRAITS COME BACK UP
FRONT. MANY BREEDERS HAVE FOUND THIER LINE OF CHOICE
THREW THIS CROSS, TO NAME A FEW, RONALD BOYLES, TOM
GARNER ALTHOUGH HE DIDNOT BREED
CHINAMAN, ALSO GR CH. SPIKE.LOPASAY'S BUSTER, GRND. CH.
RAGHEAD, THERE ARE MANY OTHER GREAT ELI/CARVER DOGS
THAT I DIDNOT MENTION THAT WERE BRED AND LEFT AN IMPACT
ON THE GAME. ONE THING I CAN SAY ABOUT A DAM GOOD
ELI/CARVER DOG,THEM MOTHER
FUCKERS DONT JUST GET DOWN THEY GOT KILLING ON THIER
MIND. THOSE THAT KNOW WILL AGREE 100%
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WHAT'S ALREADY UNDERSTOOD
DOESN'T NEED TO BE EXSPLAINED!! GREAT POST!!!!
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hound
Senior
Member
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 404
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Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:05 am
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Mrs. X
Senior
Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 422
Location: The Outer Reaches
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:24 pm
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Already wrote:
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WHAT'S
ALREADY UNDERSTOOD DOESN'T NEED TO BE EXSPLAINED!!
GREAT POST!!!!
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Lolol. Apparently a lot of things are not understood,
especially basic genetics.
It's not a good post, it is a
poorly written vomiting of something anyone could have
learned from reading the Stratton books.
But let's go back to that whole genetics thing...
Class is in session. What color was
Dibo, Bambi and Arizona Pete. They were all tan/buckskin
dogs.
What color was Blind Billy?
He was a buckskin dog.
What color was Scrub?
He was red/buckskin.
Not only that, but the red/buckskin Dibo bred dogs were
in the 40 lb range.
So tell me again where BLACK as night, 50 lber Eli and
his ilk came from.
And when you do that, LOOK at the pictures, and tell me
where the head and body came from too, because there is
nothing in Eli that resembles anything in the Dibo dogs.
It's funny, because I was just having this conversation
with someone else...
I will say this... Eli and Mayfield's Nigger DO resemble
a certain other Tudor dog. Black Jack.
Go on and have a look at Black Jack and Black Jack Jr.
Compare them with Eli and Nigger and then compare Eli and
Nigger with Blind Billy and Dibo.
While you do this, remember your genetics. Where does the
black come from. You can try to
say it's from Black Shine, but don't forget, HE was bred to a red bitch. How do
we know this? Her parents were Booger Red and Amber Girl.
Could Sherrer's Tammy then have been black?
Yes indeed, but do not forget her sire was the son of a
dog named Red Man.
Could Candy, then have been
black.
Again, possible, but with ALL THAT RED/BUCKSKIN/BROWN
breeding... the likelihood if the dogs being black
dwindle and dwindle and dwindle.
And then let's look at what was on Mr Boudreaux' yard...
Black black black dogs. IF Candy was black, and produced
the black Eli, who was then in and line bred on on
Boudreaux' yard, there should have been many many many
more buckskin eli dogs coming from his yard than black.
Now, I don't claim to know everything, and it is after
2:30 in the morning, but other than Art, where are the
buckskin eli dogs?
Honeybunch doesn't count, we all
know Bullyson wasn't her real sire, so again, where are
the buckskin Eli dogs?
I honestly cannot think of any, but I do know of one odd
color that pops up on Boudreaux' yard once in a while..
Blue.
Yup, staff blue is known to have popped up in those black
black black Boudreaux dogs. Skull is known to have spit
at least two, and they're not the only blues, Boudreaux
has admitted this himself, but the other blues just
didn't survive until double bred Skull dog Titan's Rook
Ghost came around. Then yet another blue Boudreaux dog
off Skull was born.
I have a reason for mentioning these mysterious blue
Boudreaux dogs.
See, I believe the black Blind Billy dogs that
mysteriously appeared and changed the look of a bloodline
over night came from Black Jack, who I mentioned before.
If you pull up the pictures of Black Jack, and Black Jack
Jr, and Look at Eli and Nigger, you will see a MARKED
resemblance.
What I think is that Tudor got a hold of some of his old
Black Jack blood. Now if you know about the history of
the breed, you will know that at that point in time, the
strongest concentration of Black Jack was in staffs,
specifically the Ruffian dogs.
And this is why I believe that on occasion, Boudreax dogs
will throw blue.
As a little bit of fun, you may want to go have a look at
Loposay Dot and Dubs...
Funny, but I never saw jet black Colby dogs that looked
just like Eli dogs before or after those two dogs. And Bo
looks nothing like them, nor
does HE look like a Colby dog.
If Dot and Dubs are not off Eli blood, then they just
might be off what was used to create Eli.
I am fully aware I may be way off base. But what I do
know is that genetics make Eli's pedigree a lie, based on
what he threw, and how his descendents produced. It was
counter to how his ancestors produced. That just doesn't
happen over night in one litter.
K
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_________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious
triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank
with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much
because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither
victory nor defeat.
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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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Noclist2
Senior
Member
Joined: Nov 4, 2003
Posts: 1278
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:59 pm
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berkley_160
wrote:
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Already wrote:
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WHAT'S ALREADY UNDERSTOOD DOESN'T NEED TO BE
EXSPLAINED!! GREAT POST!!!!
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Lolol. Apparently a lot of things are not understood,
especially basic genetics.
It's not a good post, it is a
poorly written vomiting of something anyone could have
learned from reading the Stratton books.
But let's go back to that whole genetics thing...
Class is in session. What color was
Dibo, Bambi and Arizona Pete. They were all
tan/buckskin dogs.
What color was Blind Billy?
He was a buckskin dog.
What color was Scrub?
He was red/buckskin.
Not only that, but the red/buckskin Dibo bred dogs were
in the 40 lb range.
So tell me again where BLACK as night, 50 lber Eli and
his ilk came from.
And when you do that, LOOK at the pictures, and tell me
where the head and body came from too, because there is
nothing in Eli that resembles anything in the Dibo
dogs.
It's funny, because I was just having this conversation
with someone else...
I will say this... Eli and Mayfield's Nigger DO
resemble a certain other Tudor dog. Black Jack.
Go on and have a look at Black Jack and Black Jack Jr.
Compare them with Eli and Nigger and then compare Eli
and Nigger with Blind Billy and Dibo.
While you do this, remember your genetics. Where does
the black come from. You can
try to say it's from Black Shine, but don't forget, HE was bred to a red bitch. How do
we know this? Her parents were Booger Red and Amber
Girl.
Could Sherrer's Tammy then have been black?
Yes indeed, but do not forget her sire was the son of a
dog named Red Man.
Could Candy, then have been
black.
Again, possible, but with ALL THAT RED/BUCKSKIN/BROWN
breeding... the likelihood if the dogs being black
dwindle and dwindle and dwindle.
And then let's look at what was on Mr Boudreaux'
yard... Black black black dogs. IF Candy was black, and
produced the black Eli, who was then in and line bred
on on Boudreaux' yard, there should have been many many
many more buckskin eli dogs coming from his yard than
black.
Now, I don't claim to know everything, and it is after
2:30 in the morning, but other than Art, where are the
buckskin eli dogs?
Honeybunch doesn't count, we
all know Bullyson wasn't her real sire, so again, where
are the buckskin Eli dogs?
I honestly cannot think of any, but I do know of one
odd color that pops up on Boudreaux' yard once in a
while..
Blue.
Yup, staff blue is known to have popped up in those
black black black Boudreaux dogs. Skull is known to
have spit at least two, and they're not the only blues,
Boudreaux has admitted this himself, but the other blues
just didn't survive until double bred Skull dog Titan's
Rook Ghost came around. Then yet another blue Boudreaux
dog off Skull was born.
I have a reason for mentioning these mysterious blue
Boudreaux dogs.
See, I believe the black Blind Billy dogs that
mysteriously appeared and changed the look of a
bloodline over night came from Black Jack, who I
mentioned before. If you pull up the pictures of Black
Jack, and Black Jack Jr, and Look at Eli and Nigger,
you will see a MARKED resemblance.
What I think is that Tudor got a hold of some of his
old Black Jack blood. Now if you know about the history
of the breed, you will know that at that point in time,
the strongest concentration of Black Jack was in
staffs, specifically the Ruffian dogs.
And this is why I believe that on occasion, Boudreax
dogs will throw blue.
As a little bit of fun, you may want to go have a look
at Loposay Dot and Dubs...
Funny, but I never saw jet black Colby dogs that looked
just like Eli dogs before or after those two dogs. And
Bo looks nothing like them,
nor does HE look like a Colby dog.
If Dot and Dubs are not off Eli blood, then they just
might be off what was used to create Eli.
I am fully aware I may be way off base. But what I do
know is that genetics make Eli's pedigree a lie, based
on what he threw, and how his descendents produced. It
was counter to how his ancestors produced. That just
doesn't happen over night in one litter.
K
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One grey dog that did not live to maturity.... But inbred Mayfield dog
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_________________
Yours In Sport!<br />MMcDaniel
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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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Good boy "Piche" and a great representation of
Eli/Carver dogs in nowadays.
Congratulations
Juan Miguel, good job.
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Last edited by villaliberty on Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:58 am;
edited 1 time in total
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Mrs. X
Senior
Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 422
Location: The Outer Reaches
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:56 am
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villaliberty
wrote:
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It is
appreciated the interesting views of all of you, yes
sir. Sorry for my bad english and could not understand
everything, lol, lol.
Do not forget that genetics is complicated and
whimsical, some times might seem even contradictory and
therefore does not mean that will not be true.
“THE BLACKS” http://www.villaliberty.org/theblacks.html -- http://www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html
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Genetics is not whimsical. Genetics is solid and complete
SCIENTIFIC FACT. And it's not at all complicated. With
the internet, things are much easier to learn and
understand as well.
There is also picture evidence that shows that these dogs
cannot be bred the way the pedigrees say they are. Again,
I point out that Eli looks nothing like Scrub, looks
nothing like Blind Billy, looks nothing like Dibo.
Neither does Nigger. They both do, however, look more
like Black Jack and specifically Black Jack Jr. Picture
them with their ears uncropped. Black Jack up close would
explain not just the color, but the size and the bite,
NONE of which were present in the smaller
"Dibo" type dogs.
I also postulate that the Loposay dogs were not Colby
dogs. Nor was Bo, based on the thousands of Colby dogs
that have been born in the past 100 years, not one of
which looked anything like Bo, Dot or Dubs.
I also point out that even were I wrong, Bo being an in
and line bred Colby dog SHOULD have produce uniform dogs
in looks. None of his pups looks anything like the other.
When was the last Jeep dog you had that looked like a
Colby dog?
They don't, they look like Honeybunch... Who does NOT
look like a buckskin Eli dog... Honeybunch is truly the
product of Maurice Carvers mad scientist machinations. I
do believe that Honeybunch is off Carver's Amber. If you
look at Carver's Cracker, the dog that is supposed to be
Amber's sire, there is a clear resemblance. There are
Honeybunch bred dogs today that look just like Cracker.
Now.. Tell me how many
Honeybunch/Jeep bred dogs you know of that look like
Ironhead, the supposed sire of Honeybunch according to
some legends? I think it's more likely Honeybunch was
double bred on Cracker than Ironhead was her sire.
In fact, Honeybunch is typical of what I call the
"Dibo" type of dog, which is no surprise, since
Cracker is a son of Dibo.
So Honeybunch is, in my belief, a true bred, pure bred
Dibo dog. Not only does she look like dogs produced right
off Dibo, but she looks like the dogs that produced Dibo,
and she produced dogs that look like the dogs that
produced Dibo. Look at the pictures of Corvino's Gimp and
Shorty, and tell me you have not seen dogs that look
exactly like those dogs bred off Jeep and Honeybunch. And
remember when I was commenting on poor orphaned pedigree
Finley's Bo who not only could not ever be a Colby dog,
was unlikely to have been produced by the very Eli
looking Dubs and Dot? Well..
Have a look at Tudor's Goldie in Dibo's pedigree. Compare
her to Bo. Se the resemblance?
That would help to explain IF Bo was actually another
hidden true Dibo dog, why the litter produced so well,
and why Jeep stamped his pups that hard. Because hybrid
dogs do NOT stamp their pups, they produce dogs that look
like their mother, or their father.
Bullyson, Eli Jr, Eli, and Mayfield's Nigger are NOT Dibo
dogs. But I do believe they are Tudor dogs and are
instead of being based off the smaller BUCKSKIN Corvino
based Dibo dogs, Tudo based it on some of his old Black
Jack blood which produced Nigger and Eli, and the rest is
history.
I do not claim that I am correct,
all I have is a theory. I am putting together what I SEE
from old pictures, and what I KNOW from genetics and
coming up with proof that certain dogs could not have
been bred the way their pedigree says. I believe there
are two types of Tudor dogs.
One line is the true Dibo dogs, of which Honeybunch is
one, and Jeep through her and possibly through his sire
is another. They are represented today in the many Jeep
and Honeybunch lines.
The other Tudor line is the Black Jack dogs represented
through the black devil Boudreaux dogs starting with Eli,
Eli Jr, and Bullyson, with a red/buckskin offshoot
through Art, represented today through the Nigerino dogs.
The Nigger dogs I have to have a deeper look at because
there is something interesting happening with them. They
started black and quickly went red. Rock and a number of
his offspring had white face markings like black and tan
dogs, only it wasn't an at locus thing going on. I
believe Brasken had the same thing happening. I do know
there are a lot of red dogs coming from the Mayfield line
more so than the Eli line and sometimes they look like
red/buckskin Eli dogs... but most of the time they don't.
Though I confess, even with my close proximity to the
Rock dog, I have not studied Mayfield dogs the way I have
more popular and interesting (to me) bloodlines.
It could well be that Mayfield had the true blend of red
Corvino and black Black Jack dogs which would explain why
they turned red quickly (or was it only the
Kerner/Sofiakis dogs that did that?), and also why
Mayfield would insist he had the purest of the pure old
time blood. Well, if your base is Black Jack and the old
Con Feeley blood, yeah, I think you can make that claim,
lol.
Genetics do not lie, but all of this is of course, open
to interpretation. Whatever the case may be, however
these dogs were bred, the greatness of these dogs
reverberate through the breed to this day. This is why
though these dogs died before many of us were born, we are still talking about them.
K
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_________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious
triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank
with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much
because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither
victory nor defeat.
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villaliberty
Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
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Very good and interesting points
of view you have of course, but they are just points of
views and as your well said, all
of this is of course, open to interpretation of each one,
but they are still hypotheses.
An experienced breeder, aware of the matter and whimsical
to get his ideal of dogs in his taste, through selection
breeding tool, he can get it in one or two nights and
with lucky of course.
However in my opinion I still think, that although a
breeder takes all his life breeding dogs and learning
about genetic, every day he can keep learning many new
issues related in genetics, never stop learning something
that has no end.
For this and other reasons I think we should be more
cautious in stating issues that we not know that be true,
is just our opinion and hypothesis. I still think that
genetics is complicated and whimsical, some times might
seem even contradictory and therefore does not mean that
will not be true.
Thank you very much for your time and interesting. Excuse
my bad english.
Related with the issue:
- “THE BLACKS” http://www.villaliberty.org/theblacks.html
- AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER WITH PEDIGREE ¿YES OR NO? http://www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html
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Last edited by villaliberty on Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:09 am;
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Mrs. X
Senior
Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 422
Location: The Outer Reaches
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:21 am
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I refuse to be cautious. I
refuse to be responsible for anyone else's stupidity
other than my own.
If I say something is my opinion and this is the reason I
believe these things, and someone else chooses to take it
as fact, that is their problem
not mine.
Here is a quote for you. Well behaved women rarely make
history. I am NOT a well behaved woman, and I have
already made my mark on history, and I plan on leaving
more.
If you subscribe to the theory of caution, you hold
yourself back. The advances we have made in history have
not been made by being cautious, but by boldly going
forward, full bore and wide open, just like these dogs of
ours.
And I also REFUSE to take something as fact because
someone else said this is so. MORE people need to learn
to THINK for themselves. That is what I do, and I come to
my own truths, which are usually backed by evidence that
says my truths are closer to being right than they are to
being wrong.
I will state once more for the record that I believe that
it is impossible for Eli to be bred that way, AND it is
impossible for a whole bloodline to change overnight from
small buckskin dogs to large black dogs. Is it beyond a
reasonable doubt? No. But is it by the preponderance of
the evidence? Yes. I can take my evidence to court and be
reasonably sure I would win my case. The only thing that
anyone who sticks to the given Eli pedigree has IS the
pedigree. Everything else points to that pedigree being fake.
Of course if someone has something else other than the
pedigree that proves the pedigree, I am willing to listen
and see their point and maybe come to the conclusion I
was wrong. I never said I was right, just that this is
what I believe based on the evidence and my own common
sense, and genetic knowledge.
Perhaps you see genetics that way because you do not
understand them. But what we know of genetics, it's not
whimsical, it's as sure as the sun will rise in the east
and set in the west. Again, scientific fact. There is no
room for whimsy. Sure genetics can throw up some
surprises, and sure there are mutations, but they can be
explained and they can be charted as to order of
inheritance what locus it may be found on, and those
things are set in stone.
Genetics may be another language to some people, but it
is a language I am fluent in. No, we have not found or
described all the genetic modifiers, but the genes and
the genome is known. This is why you can have a two sire
litter and correctly register puppies to the right sire.
EVEN when the sires are full brothers. Because of fact. Not whimsey.
K
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_________________
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious
triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank
with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much
because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither
victory nor defeat.
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