(En ESPAÑOL debajo)

Same people called this read like, THE PIT BULL READ 2014

Some people or “breeders” sometimes tend to misconduct with other breeders, by false gossip invent hoaxes to discredit subtly in one way or another way others breeders who work dogs with genetics to consider too competitive with which they breed, and  them want to remove from among a vile and petty manner. It also often happens that some people wish to discredit the Official Pedigree of the breed (ADBA) because their dogs do not have it, then also inventing lies and gossip hoaxes to discredit intelligent and subtly the effectiveness of the Official Pedigree of the breed, thinking that if they get it, his mixed dogs in most cases, would be revalued in the eyes of fans with little experience in the breed. For a proper protection and right promotion of the breed, unfortunately I fear that we must seriously consider this last, to find a logical answer to this whole thing, which is not sufficiently clear nor clean.

 

To put an example of easy understanding about this last, I add then a private full discussion of the Online Pedigrees but with different names of the users involved in this debate, for not to feel them uncomfortable and annoying to see that the private debate is now displayed in public. This debate comes in handy to understand what I am referring, specifically between the contacts between users known as Mrs. X and Villaliberty, this last obviously is a server. Mrs. X as you will see in the debate, is dedicated to intelligent and very subtly to discredit the honest old timers and also some breeders of nowadays (including a server) that we Registered our dogs in the ADBA. Mrs. X also is dedicated to intelligent and very subtly to discredit to the Official Pedigree of the Breed in International scope, I mean to the ADBA pedigree, so that in this "intelligent" and subtle way runs like wildfire among fans around the world a series of hoaxes and false gossip like if it were a truth, gossip and false hoaxes that go with bad intention against the fans and against the breed itself.

 

This debate is one of the most read and transited by the users around the world in Online Pedigrees, which I have to say, that it inspired me to carry out this report that I add then and therefore, I am satisfied and grateful to this debate, which I think can be a great complement to this report entitled: Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html (By Mariano Peinado)

 

ESPAÑOL

Algunos aficionados, han denominado a esta lectura como, EL ESCRITO DEL PIT BULL 2014

Algunas personas o “criadores” algunas veces suelen tener mala intención con otros criadores, por medio de chismes falsos inventan bulos para desacreditar sutilmente de una u otra manera aquellos criadores que trabajan genéticas que consideran demasiado competitivas con las que ellos crían, y desean quitárselas de en medio de una manera ruin y mezquina. También suele ocurrir, que algunas personas desean desacreditar el pedigree Oficial de la raza (ADBA) porque sus perros no lo tienen, entonces igualmente por medio de mentiras y chismes inventan bulos para desacreditar inteligente y sutilmente la efectividad del pedigree Oficial de la raza, pensando que si lo consiguen, sus perros mestizos en la mayoría de los casos, se revalorizarían ante los ojos de los aficionados con poca experiencia en la raza. Para una adecuada protección y correcta promoción de la raza, lamentablemente me temo que debemos tener en cuenta muy seriamente esto último, para poder encontrar una lógica respuesta a todo este asunto, el cual no es lo bastante claro ni limpio.

 

Por poner un ejemplo de fácil entendimiento a cerca de esto último, a continuación añado íntegramente un debate privado en ingles del Online Pedigrees pero con diferentes nombres de los usuarios que intervienen dentro de dicho debate, para que no se sientan incomodos ni molestos al observar que dicho debate privado ahora se muestra en público. Este debate viene como anillo al dedo para comprender a lo que me estoy refiriendo, concretamente entre los contactos mantenidos entre los usuarios denominados como Mrs. X y villaliberty, este último obviamente se trata de un servidor. Mrs. X como podrán comprobar dentro del debate, se dedica a desacreditar inteligente y muy sutilmente a los honestos criadores de antaño y algunos de la actualidad (incluido un servidor) que registramos nuestros perros en la ADBA. Mrs. X igualmente se dedica a desacreditar inteligente y muy sutilmente el Pedigree Oficial de la raza en ámbito Internacional, me refiero al Pedigree de la ADBA, para que de esta manera “inteligente” y sutil corra como la pólvora entre los aficionados de todo el mundo una serie de chismes y falsos bulos como si de una verdad se tratara, chismes y falsos bulos que van con muy mala intención en contra de los aficionados y en contra de la propia raza.

 

Este debate es uno de los más leídos y transitados por los usuarios de todo el mundo del Online Pedigrees, el cual he de decir, que me sirvió de inspiración para la realización de un reportaje que adjunto a continuación y por tanto, me siento satisfecho y agradecido con este debate, que creo que puede ser un estupendo complemento para este reportaje titulado: ¿De dónde le viene el color NEGRO a los perros ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX, siendo que todos ellos son de la familia de Tudor´s “DIBO” y este era de color buckskin? - LOS PERROS DE HENRY http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html (Por Mariano Peinado)

 

----------------------------------------------------

  Online Pedigrees Debate entitled HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER By Mr. D

Debate del Online Pedigrees titulado HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER Por Mr. D

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 HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER (PAG 1)

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deadend
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:54 am

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I HAVE DECIDED TO POST A LITTLE HISTORY ON THE ELI/CARVER CROSS,BUT WHEN I SAY CROSS IM BASICALLY MEANING INBRED ON A (DOMINATE TRAIT). OKAY NOW WHEN IT COMES TO ELI CARVER SOME PEOPLE WONDER WHY THIS CROSS WORKS SO WELL. IM GONNA START OFF WITH THE BOUDREAUX LINE, FLOYD STARTED WITH BLINDBILLY AS HIS STUD DOG AND IN MY BOOK YOU COULDN'T ASK FOR BETTER DIBO BLOOD. BLINDBILLY'S SIRE WAS TUDOR'S DIBO AND HIS DAM WAS TUDORS MIMMIE WHICH WAS A DAUGHTER OF CH. ARIZONA PETE WICH WAS A LITTERMATE BROTHER TO DIBO BUT A PROVEN CH. ,PETE WAS BRED BACK TO HIS AND DIBOS MOTHER BAMBI TO PRODUCE MIMMIE.SO BLINDBILLY'S GENETICS CONSISTED OF THE PERFORMANCE AND PRODUCTIVITY, PETE WAS A PROVEN CHAMP AND DIBO WAS A PROVEN PRODUCER, SO FLOYD MADE A WISE CHOICE USING BLINDBILLY AS HIS FOUNDATION STUD.TO SUM IT UP BLINDBILLY WAS A RESULT OF DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE. NOW I'M GONNA SHIFT OVER TO THE CARVER BLOOD, THE FOUNDATION TO THE CARVER BLOOD IS WHEN HE BRED DIBO TO BLACKWIDOW BACK THEN CARVER NOTICE THAT THE DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BREEDING PRODUCED ALOTS OF LATE STARTERS, WHICH DIBO DIDNOT CRANK UNTIL HE WAS THREE YEARS OLD SO TO ILLIMUNATE THIS HE CROSSED HIS DIBO /BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE ED. CRENSHAW BLOOD. IT BASICALLY GAVE HIS BLOOD WHAT IT NEEDED. BOTH BREEDERS STARTED WITH CONCENTRATED DIBO BLOOD, FLOYD'S FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE(BLINDBILLY) & CARVERS FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS GRANDAUGHTER( CARVER'S DEE, AND HER LITTERMATES THAT CAME FROM THAT PARTICULAR BREEDING THAT WAS USED, CARVER ALSO CROSSED HIS DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE HEINZL BLOOD COMING THREW FRITZWATER'S GOLDIE AND DID SUPERER WELL. SO BOTH BREEDERS STARTED OUT HEAVY ON THE DIBO BLOOD AND WHEN DOG MEN HAVE TAKEN THE TWO STRAINS AND CROSS THEM TOGETHER ALL THE OLD TRAITS COME BACK UP FRONT. MANY BREEDERS HAVE FOUND THIER LINE OF CHOICE THREW THIS CROSS, TO NAME A FEW, RONALD BOYLES, TOM GARNER ALTHOUGH HE DIDNOT BREED CHINAMAN, ALSO GR CH. SPIKE.LOPASAY'S BUSTER, GRND. CH. RAGHEAD, THERE ARE MANY OTHER GREAT ELI/CARVER DOGS THAT I DIDNOT MENTION THAT WERE BRED AND LEFT AN IMPACT ON THE GAME. ONE THING I CAN SAY ABOUT A DAM GOOD ELI/CARVER DOG,THEM MOTHER FUCKERS DONT JUST GET DOWN THEY GOT KILLING ON THIER MIND. THOSE THAT KNOW WILL AGREE 100%



Last edited by deadend on Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:16 am; edited 6 times in total

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ozone
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:59 am

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One of my favorite crosses great read too..

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:12 am

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Deadend thanks 4 run down

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:06 pm

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Real talk rite der, folks Smile

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:38 am

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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=458062
Nuff said..

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marrero
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:56 am

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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=290786   
Cool

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:13 pm

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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=253956

I THINK THIS WAS A GOOD BREEDING
Shocked


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snootybulldoggs
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:33 pm

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BLOODYMESS wrote:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=253956

I THINK THIS WAS A GOOD BREEDING
Shocked

FaSho! Good luck with Diamond bruh Wink


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:21 pm

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snootybulldoggs wrote:

BLOODYMESS wrote:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=253956

I THINK THIS WAS A GOOD BREEDING
Shocked

FaSho! Good luck with Diamond bruh Wink



GOOD LUCK WITH THE TOP SIDE YOU MEAN.DIAMOND BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME MY FRIEND.


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Last edited by BLOODYMESS on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:13 pm

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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=464266

These pups are Ham!

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318DFB
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:47 pm

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Due any day now
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=283145

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:35 am

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BLOODYMESS wrote:

snootybulldoggs wrote:

BLOODYMESS wrote:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=253956

I THINK THIS WAS A GOOD BREEDING
Shocked

FaSho! Good luck with Diamond bruh Wink



GOOD LUCK WITH THE TOP SIDE YOU MEAN.DIAMOND BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME MY FRIEND.

Brother Bloody I know Diamond is Good Because of theMen behind Her, would Love to raise something of her-seem like you would get bulldoggs out of her bred to a fence poll WinkI cant wait until we all can come together break bread ya know! PEACE Brethern Keep'em Coming!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:39 am

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BOUDREAUX'S " SCRUB " WAS 93.75% BLINDBILLY
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=4088

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deadend
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:45 am

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PAPAWAY wrote:

BOUDREAUX'S " SCRUB " WAS 93.75% BLINDBILLY
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=4088

whats your point?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:29 am

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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=430930
I got her an she errthang I wanted an more

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 HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER (PAG 2)

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lottie2
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:10 am

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deadend wrote:

I HAVE DECIDED TO POST A LITTLE HISTORY ON THE ELI/CARVER CROSS,BUT WHEN I SAY CROSS IM BASICALLY MEANING INBRED ON A (DOMINATE TRAIT). OKAY NOW WHEN IT COMES TO ELI CARVER SOME PEOPLE WONDER WHY THIS CROSS WORKS SO WELL. IM GONNA START OFF WITH THE BOUDREAUX LINE, FLOYD STARTED WITH BLINDBILLY AS HIS STUD DOG AND IN MY BOOK YOU COULDN'T ASK FOR BETTER DIBO BLOOD. BLINDBILLY'S SIRE WAS TUDOR'S DIBO AND HIS DAM WAS TUDORS MIMMIE WHICH WAS A DAUGHTER OF CH. ARIZONA PETE WICH WAS A LITTERMATE BROTHER TO DIBO BUT A PROVEN CH. ,PETE WAS BRED BACK TO HIS AND DIBOS MOTHER BAMBI TO PRODUCE MIMMIE.SO BLINDBILLY'S GENETICS CONSISTED OF THE PERFORMANCE AND PRODUCTIVITY, PETE WAS A PROVEN CHAMP AND DIBO WAS A PROVEN PRODUCER, SO FLOYD MADE A WISE CHOICE USING BLINDBILLY AS HIS FOUNDATION STUD.TO SUM IT UP BLINDBILLY WAS A RESULT OF DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE. NOW I'M GONNA SHIFT OVER TO THE CARVER BLOOD, THE FOUNDATION TO THE CARVER BLOOD IS WHEN HE BRED DIBO TO BLACKWIDOW BACK THEN CARVER NOTICE THAT THE DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BREEDING PRODUCED ALOTS OF LATE STARTERS, WHICH DIBO DIDNOT CRANK UNTIL HE WAS THREE YEARS OLD SO TO ILLIMUNATE THIS HE CROSSED HIS DIBO /BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE ED. CRENSHAW BLOOD. IT BASICALLY GAVE HIS BLOOD WHAT IT NEEDED. BOTH BREEDERS STARTED WITH CONCENTRATED DIBO BLOOD, FLOYD'S FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE(BLINDBILLY) & CARVERS FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS GRANDAUGHTER( CARVER'S DEE, AND HER LITTERMATES THAT CAME FROM THAT PARTICULAR BREEDING THAT WAS USED, CARVER ALSO CROSSED HIS DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE HEINZL BLOOD COMING THREW FRITZWATER'S GOLDIE AND DID SUPERER WELL. SO BOTH BREEDERS STARTED OUT HEAVY ON THE DIBO BLOOD AND WHEN DOG MEN HAVE TAKEN THE TWO STRAINS AND CROSS THEM TOGETHER ALL THE OLD TRAITS COME BACK UP FRONT. MANY BREEDERS HAVE FOUND THIER LINE OF CHOICE THREW THIS CROSS, TO NAME A FEW, RONALD BOYLES, TOM GARNER ALTHOUGH HE DIDNOT BREED CHINAMAN, ALSO GR CH. SPIKE.LOPASAY'S BUSTER, GRND. CH. RAGHEAD, THERE ARE MANY OTHER GREAT ELI/CARVER DOGS THAT I DIDNOT MENTION THAT WERE BRED AND LEFT AN IMPACT ON THE GAME. ONE THING I CAN SAY ABOUT A DAM GOOD ELI/CARVER DOG,THEM MOTHER FUCKERS DONT JUST GET DOWN THEY GOT KILLING ON THIER MIND. THOSE THAT KNOW WILL AGREE 100%

DID NOT ASK TO SHOW YOUR PEDS ... IF YOU DO SHOW PED WHAT DID THEY DO,,, (PRODUCE) SIRE AN DAM. SCHOOL WAS IN DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:08 am

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Here's my Eli/carver bitch http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=388193 ped number

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:40 am

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SHE CAN TELL A STORY HER SELF

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=388193


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:59 am

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If it ain't broke don't fix it.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=461835

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=499009

Carver implemented the Eli blood into his stock after watching Eli JR. and that prompted him to get Bullyson on his yard. When he blended the Eli into his bloodline it became another piece. In actuality the breeding's he made make it carver blood with no emphasis on Eli unless you have infused another source free of his influence. You could say Butcherboy x Carver just as easily. All the winning dogs he could get his hands on in those days got blended in. Including Mayfields stuff thru the Nigger dog. Those same combinations from the rite place continue to impress but it wasn't just Eli its the combo. Arts Missy and Miss Spike where probably more influential in the good ones that left his yard. Infact Ed Crenshaw probably had more to do with Carvers success than Carver did himself.



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:11 am

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lottie2 wrote:

klow wrote:

Here's my Eli/carver bitch 388193 ped number




SHE CAN TELL A STORY HER SELF

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=388193

Facts.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:42 am

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:08 pm

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deadend wrote:

I HAVE DECIDED TO POST A LITTLE HISTORY ON THE ELI/CARVER CROSS,BUT WHEN I SAY CROSS IM BASICALLY MEANING INBRED ON A (DOMINATE TRAIT). OKAY NOW WHEN IT COMES TO ELI CARVER SOME PEOPLE WONDER WHY THIS CROSS WORKS SO WELL. IM GONNA START OFF WITH THE BOUDREAUX LINE, FLOYD STARTED WITH BLINDBILLY AS HIS STUD DOG AND IN MY BOOK YOU COULDN'T ASK FOR BETTER DIBO BLOOD. BLINDBILLY'S SIRE WAS TUDOR'S DIBO AND HIS DAM WAS TUDORS MIMMIE WHICH WAS A DAUGHTER OF CH. ARIZONA PETE WICH WAS A LITTERMATE BROTHER TO DIBO BUT A PROVEN CH. ,PETE WAS BRED BACK TO HIS AND DIBOS MOTHER BAMBI TO PRODUCE MIMMIE.SO BLINDBILLY'S GENETICS CONSISTED OF THE PERFORMANCE AND PRODUCTIVITY, PETE WAS A PROVEN CHAMP AND DIBO WAS A PROVEN PRODUCER, SO FLOYD MADE A WISE CHOICE USING BLINDBILLY AS HIS FOUNDATION STUD.TO SUM IT UP BLINDBILLY WAS A RESULT OF DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE. NOW I'M GONNA SHIFT OVER TO THE CARVER BLOOD, THE FOUNDATION TO THE CARVER BLOOD IS WHEN HE BRED DIBO TO BLACKWIDOW BACK THEN CARVER NOTICE THAT THE DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BREEDING PRODUCED ALOTS OF LATE STARTERS, WHICH DIBO DIDNOT CRANK UNTIL HE WAS THREE YEARS OLD SO TO ILLIMUNATE THIS HE CROSSED HIS DIBO /BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE ED. CRENSHAW BLOOD. IT BASICALLY GAVE HIS BLOOD WHAT IT NEEDED. BOTH BREEDERS STARTED WITH CONCENTRATED DIBO BLOOD, FLOYD'S FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS NEICE(BLINDBILLY) & CARVERS FOUNDATION WAS DIBO BRED BACK TO HIS GRANDAUGHTER( CARVER'S DEE, AND HER LITTERMATES THAT CAME FROM THAT PARTICULAR BREEDING THAT WAS USED, CARVER ALSO CROSSED HIS DIBO/BLACKWIDOW BLOOD INTO THE HEINZL BLOOD COMING THREW FRITZWATER'S GOLDIE AND DID SUPERER WELL. SO BOTH BREEDERS STARTED OUT HEAVY ON THE DIBO BLOOD AND WHEN DOG MEN HAVE TAKEN THE TWO STRAINS AND CROSS THEM TOGETHER ALL THE OLD TRAITS COME BACK UP FRONT. MANY BREEDERS HAVE FOUND THIER LINE OF CHOICE THREW THIS CROSS, TO NAME A FEW, RONALD BOYLES, TOM GARNER ALTHOUGH HE DIDNOT BREED CHINAMAN, ALSO GR CH. SPIKE.LOPASAY'S BUSTER, GRND. CH. RAGHEAD, THERE ARE MANY OTHER GREAT ELI/CARVER DOGS THAT I DIDNOT MENTION THAT WERE BRED AND LEFT AN IMPACT ON THE GAME. ONE THING I CAN SAY ABOUT A DAM GOOD ELI/CARVER DOG,THEM MOTHER FUCKERS DONT JUST GET DOWN THEY GOT KILLING ON THIER MIND. THOSE THAT KNOW WILL AGREE 100%

WHAT'S ALREADY UNDERSTOOD DOESN'T NEED TO BE EXSPLAINED!! GREAT POST!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:05 am

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One good animal http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=360771

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Mrs. X
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:24 pm

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Already wrote:

WHAT'S ALREADY UNDERSTOOD DOESN'T NEED TO BE EXSPLAINED!! GREAT POST!!!!



Lolol. Apparently a lot of things are not understood, especially basic genetics.
It's not a good post, it is a poorly written vomiting of something anyone could have learned from reading the Stratton books.
But let's go back to that whole genetics thing...
Class is in session. What color was Dibo, Bambi and Arizona Pete. They were all tan/buckskin dogs.
What color was Blind Billy?
He was a buckskin dog.
What color was Scrub?
He was red/buckskin.
Not only that, but the red/buckskin Dibo bred dogs were in the 40 lb range.

So tell me again where BLACK as night, 50 lber Eli and his ilk came from.
And when you do that, LOOK at the pictures, and tell me where the head and body came from too, because there is nothing in Eli that resembles anything in the Dibo dogs.
It's funny, because I was just having this conversation with someone else...

I will say this... Eli and Mayfield's Nigger DO resemble a certain other Tudor dog. Black Jack.
Go on and have a look at Black Jack and Black Jack Jr. Compare them with Eli and Nigger and then compare Eli and Nigger with Blind Billy and Dibo.

While you do this, remember your genetics. Where does the black come from. You can try to say it's from Black Shine, but don't forget, HE was bred to a red bitch. How do we know this? Her parents were Booger Red and Amber Girl.
Could Sherrer's Tammy then have been black?
Yes indeed, but do not forget her sire was the son of a dog named Red Man.
Could Candy, then have been black.
Again, possible, but with ALL THAT RED/BUCKSKIN/BROWN breeding... the likelihood if the dogs being black dwindle and dwindle and dwindle.

And then let's look at what was on Mr Boudreaux' yard... Black black black dogs. IF Candy was black, and produced the black Eli, who was then in and line bred on on Boudreaux' yard, there should have been many many many more buckskin eli dogs coming from his yard than black.
Now, I don't claim to know everything, and it is after 2:30 in the morning, but other than Art, where are the buckskin eli dogs?
Honeybunch doesn't count, we all know Bullyson wasn't her real sire, so again, where are the buckskin Eli dogs?

I honestly cannot think of any, but I do know of one odd color that pops up on Boudreaux' yard once in a while..
Blue.
Yup, staff blue is known to have popped up in those black black black Boudreaux dogs. Skull is known to have spit at least two, and they're not the only blues, Boudreaux has admitted this himself, but the other blues just didn't survive until double bred Skull dog Titan's Rook Ghost came around. Then yet another blue Boudreaux dog off Skull was born.

I have a reason for mentioning these mysterious blue Boudreaux dogs.
See, I believe the black Blind Billy dogs that mysteriously appeared and changed the look of a bloodline over night came from Black Jack, who I mentioned before. If you pull up the pictures of Black Jack, and Black Jack Jr, and Look at Eli and Nigger, you will see a MARKED resemblance.
What I think is that Tudor got a hold of some of his old Black Jack blood. Now if you know about the history of the breed, you will know that at that point in time, the strongest concentration of Black Jack was in staffs, specifically the Ruffian dogs.
And this is why I believe that on occasion, Boudreax dogs will throw blue.

As a little bit of fun, you may want to go have a look at Loposay Dot and Dubs...
Funny, but I never saw jet black Colby dogs that looked just like Eli dogs before or after those two dogs. And Bo looks nothing like them, nor does HE look like a Colby dog.
If Dot and Dubs are not off Eli blood, then they just might be off what was used to create Eli.

I am fully aware I may be way off base. But what I do know is that genetics make Eli's pedigree a lie, based on what he threw, and how his descendents produced. It was counter to how his ancestors produced. That just doesn't happen over night in one litter.

K


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:47 pm

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It is appreciated the interesting views of all of you, yes sir. Sorry for my bad english and could not understand everything, lol, lol.

Do not forget that genetics is complicated and whimsical, some times might seem even contradictory and therefore does not mean that will not be true.

“THE BLACKS”
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:59 pm

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berkley_160 wrote:

Already wrote:

WHAT'S ALREADY UNDERSTOOD DOESN'T NEED TO BE EXSPLAINED!! GREAT POST!!!!



Lolol. Apparently a lot of things are not understood, especially basic genetics.
It's not a good post, it is a poorly written vomiting of something anyone could have learned from reading the Stratton books.
But let's go back to that whole genetics thing...
Class is in session. What color was Dibo, Bambi and Arizona Pete. They were all tan/buckskin dogs.
What color was Blind Billy?
He was a buckskin dog.
What color was Scrub?
He was red/buckskin.
Not only that, but the red/buckskin Dibo bred dogs were in the 40 lb range.

So tell me again where BLACK as night, 50 lber Eli and his ilk came from.
And when you do that, LOOK at the pictures, and tell me where the head and body came from too, because there is nothing in Eli that resembles anything in the Dibo dogs.
It's funny, because I was just having this conversation with someone else...

I will say this... Eli and Mayfield's Nigger DO resemble a certain other Tudor dog. Black Jack.
Go on and have a look at Black Jack and Black Jack Jr. Compare them with Eli and Nigger and then compare Eli and Nigger with Blind Billy and Dibo.

While you do this, remember your genetics. Where does the black come from. You can try to say it's from Black Shine, but don't forget, HE was bred to a red bitch. How do we know this? Her parents were Booger Red and Amber Girl.
Could Sherrer's Tammy then have been black?
Yes indeed, but do not forget her sire was the son of a dog named Red Man.
Could Candy, then have been black.
Again, possible, but with ALL THAT RED/BUCKSKIN/BROWN breeding... the likelihood if the dogs being black dwindle and dwindle and dwindle.

And then let's look at what was on Mr Boudreaux' yard... Black black black dogs. IF Candy was black, and produced the black Eli, who was then in and line bred on on Boudreaux' yard, there should have been many many many more buckskin eli dogs coming from his yard than black.
Now, I don't claim to know everything, and it is after 2:30 in the morning, but other than Art, where are the buckskin eli dogs?
Honeybunch doesn't count, we all know Bullyson wasn't her real sire, so again, where are the buckskin Eli dogs?

I honestly cannot think of any, but I do know of one odd color that pops up on Boudreaux' yard once in a while..
Blue.
Yup, staff blue is known to have popped up in those black black black Boudreaux dogs. Skull is known to have spit at least two, and they're not the only blues, Boudreaux has admitted this himself, but the other blues just didn't survive until double bred Skull dog Titan's Rook Ghost came around. Then yet another blue Boudreaux dog off Skull was born.

I have a reason for mentioning these mysterious blue Boudreaux dogs.
See, I believe the black Blind Billy dogs that mysteriously appeared and changed the look of a bloodline over night came from Black Jack, who I mentioned before. If you pull up the pictures of Black Jack, and Black Jack Jr, and Look at Eli and Nigger, you will see a MARKED resemblance.
What I think is that Tudor got a hold of some of his old Black Jack blood. Now if you know about the history of the breed, you will know that at that point in time, the strongest concentration of Black Jack was in staffs, specifically the Ruffian dogs.
And this is why I believe that on occasion, Boudreax dogs will throw blue.

As a little bit of fun, you may want to go have a look at Loposay Dot and Dubs...
Funny, but I never saw jet black Colby dogs that looked just like Eli dogs before or after those two dogs. And Bo looks nothing like them, nor does HE look like a Colby dog.
If Dot and Dubs are not off Eli blood, then they just might be off what was used to create Eli.

I am fully aware I may be way off base. But what I do know is that genetics make Eli's pedigree a lie, based on what he threw, and how his descendents produced. It was counter to how his ancestors produced. That just doesn't happen over night in one litter.

K



One grey dog that did not live to maturity....
But inbred Mayfield dog
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:33 am

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Good boy "Piche" and a great representation of Eli/Carver dogs in nowadays.

Congratulations Juan Miguel, good job.



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:56 am

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villaliberty wrote:

It is appreciated the interesting views of all of you, yes sir. Sorry for my bad english and could not understand everything, lol, lol.

Do not forget that genetics is complicated and whimsical, some times might seem even contradictory and therefore does not mean that will not be true.

“THE BLACKS”
http://www.villaliberty.org/theblacks.html -- http://www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html



Genetics is not whimsical. Genetics is solid and complete SCIENTIFIC FACT. And it's not at all complicated. With the internet, things are much easier to learn and understand as well.

There is also picture evidence that shows that these dogs cannot be bred the way the pedigrees say they are. Again, I point out that Eli looks nothing like Scrub, looks nothing like Blind Billy, looks nothing like Dibo. Neither does Nigger. They both do, however, look more like Black Jack and specifically Black Jack Jr. Picture them with their ears uncropped. Black Jack up close would explain not just the color, but the size and the bite, NONE of which were present in the smaller "Dibo" type dogs.

I also postulate that the Loposay dogs were not Colby dogs. Nor was Bo, based on the thousands of Colby dogs that have been born in the past 100 years, not one of which looked anything like Bo, Dot or Dubs.
I also point out that even were I wrong, Bo being an in and line bred Colby dog SHOULD have produce uniform dogs in looks. None of his pups looks anything like the other.
When was the last Jeep dog you had that looked like a Colby dog?
They don't, they look like Honeybunch... Who does NOT look like a buckskin Eli dog... Honeybunch is truly the product of Maurice Carvers mad scientist machinations. I do believe that Honeybunch is off Carver's Amber. If you look at Carver's Cracker, the dog that is supposed to be Amber's sire, there is a clear resemblance. There are Honeybunch bred dogs today that look just like Cracker.
Now.. Tell me how many Honeybunch/Jeep bred dogs you know of that look like Ironhead, the supposed sire of Honeybunch according to some legends? I think it's more likely Honeybunch was double bred on Cracker than Ironhead was her sire.
In fact, Honeybunch is typical of what I call the "Dibo" type of dog, which is no surprise, since Cracker is a son of Dibo.

So Honeybunch is, in my belief, a true bred, pure bred Dibo dog. Not only does she look like dogs produced right off Dibo, but she looks like the dogs that produced Dibo, and she produced dogs that look like the dogs that produced Dibo. Look at the pictures of Corvino's Gimp and Shorty, and tell me you have not seen dogs that look exactly like those dogs bred off Jeep and Honeybunch. And remember when I was commenting on poor orphaned pedigree Finley's Bo who not only could not ever be a Colby dog, was unlikely to have been produced by the very Eli looking Dubs and Dot? Well.. Have a look at Tudor's Goldie in Dibo's pedigree. Compare her to Bo. Se the resemblance?
That would help to explain IF Bo was actually another hidden true Dibo dog, why the litter produced so well, and why Jeep stamped his pups that hard. Because hybrid dogs do NOT stamp their pups, they produce dogs that look like their mother, or their father.

Bullyson, Eli Jr, Eli, and Mayfield's Nigger are NOT Dibo dogs. But I do believe they are Tudor dogs and are instead of being based off the smaller BUCKSKIN Corvino based Dibo dogs, Tudo based it on some of his old Black Jack blood which produced Nigger and Eli, and the rest is history.

I do not claim that I am correct, all I have is a theory. I am putting together what I SEE from old pictures, and what I KNOW from genetics and coming up with proof that certain dogs could not have been bred the way their pedigree says. I believe there are two types of Tudor dogs.
One line is the true Dibo dogs, of which Honeybunch is one, and Jeep through her and possibly through his sire is another. They are represented today in the many Jeep and Honeybunch lines.
The other Tudor line is the Black Jack dogs represented through the black devil Boudreaux dogs starting with Eli, Eli Jr, and Bullyson, with a red/buckskin offshoot through Art, represented today through the Nigerino dogs.
The Nigger dogs I have to have a deeper look at because there is something interesting happening with them. They started black and quickly went red. Rock and a number of his offspring had white face markings like black and tan dogs, only it wasn't an at locus thing going on. I believe Brasken had the same thing happening. I do know there are a lot of red dogs coming from the Mayfield line more so than the Eli line and sometimes they look like red/buckskin Eli dogs... but most of the time they don't. Though I confess, even with my close proximity to the Rock dog, I have not studied Mayfield dogs the way I have more popular and interesting (to me) bloodlines.
It could well be that Mayfield had the true blend of red Corvino and black Black Jack dogs which would explain why they turned red quickly (or was it only the Kerner/Sofiakis dogs that did that?), and also why Mayfield would insist he had the purest of the pure old time blood. Well, if your base is Black Jack and the old Con Feeley blood, yeah, I think you can make that claim, lol.

Genetics do not lie, but all of this is of course, open to interpretation. Whatever the case may be, however these dogs were bred, the greatness of these dogs reverberate through the breed to this day. This is why though these dogs died before many of us were born, we are still talking about them.

K


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:42 am

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Very good and interesting points of view you have of course, but they are just points of views and as your well said, all of this is of course, open to interpretation of each one, but they are still hypotheses.

An experienced breeder, aware of the matter and whimsical to get his ideal of dogs in his taste, through selection breeding tool, he can get it in one or two nights and with lucky of course.

However in my opinion I still think, that although a breeder takes all his life breeding dogs and learning about genetic, every day he can keep learning many new issues related in genetics, never stop learning something that has no end.

For this and other reasons I think we should be more cautious in stating issues that we not know that be true, is just our opinion and hypothesis. I still think that genetics is complicated and whimsical, some times might seem even contradictory and therefore does not mean that will not be true.

Thank you very much for your time and interesting. Excuse my bad english.

Related with the issue:

- “THE BLACKS”
http://www.villaliberty.org/theblacks.html

- AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER WITH PEDIGREE ¿YES OR NO?
http://www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:21 am

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I refuse to be cautious. I refuse to be responsible for anyone else's stupidity other than my own.
If I say something is my opinion and this is the reason I believe these things, and someone else chooses to take it as fact, that is their problem not mine.
Here is a quote for you. Well behaved women rarely make history. I am NOT a well behaved woman, and I have already made my mark on history, and I plan on leaving more.

If you subscribe to the theory of caution, you hold yourself back. The advances we have made in history have not been made by being cautious, but by boldly going forward, full bore and wide open, just like these dogs of ours.

And I also REFUSE to take something as fact because someone else said this is so. MORE people need to learn to THINK for themselves. That is what I do, and I come to my own truths, which are usually backed by evidence that says my truths are closer to being right than they are to being wrong.

I will state once more for the record that I believe that it is impossible for Eli to be bred that way, AND it is impossible for a whole bloodline to change overnight from small buckskin dogs to large black dogs. Is it beyond a reasonable doubt? No. But is it by the preponderance of the evidence? Yes. I can take my evidence to court and be reasonably sure I would win my case. The only thing that anyone who sticks to the given Eli pedigree has IS the pedigree. Everything else points to that pedigree being fake.

Of course if someone has something else other than the pedigree that proves the pedigree, I am willing to listen and see their point and maybe come to the conclusion I was wrong. I never said I was right, just that this is what I believe based on the evidence and my own common sense, and genetic knowledge.

Perhaps you see genetics that way because you do not understand them. But what we know of genetics, it's not whimsical, it's as sure as the sun will rise in the east and set in the west. Again, scientific fact. There is no room for whimsy. Sure genetics can throw up some surprises, and sure there are mutations, but they can be explained and they can be charted as to order of inheritance what locus it may be found on, and those things are set in stone.

Genetics may be another language to some people, but it is a language I am fluent in. No, we have not found or described all the genetic modifiers, but the genes and the genome is known. This is why you can have a two sire litter and correctly register puppies to the right sire. EVEN when the sires are full brothers. Because of fact.
Not whimsey.

K


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HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER (PAG 3)

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:24 am

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- "I refuse to be cautious."

I prefer to be cautious when I have not security about the truth.

- "I refuse to be responsible for anyone else's stupidity other than my own."

Me too. Lol

- "Well behaved women rarely make history. I am NOT a well behaved woman, and I have already made my mark on history, and I plan on leaving more."

Thats is great and I liked. Congratulations and good luck.

Thank you.

Related with the issue:

@ “THE BLACKS”
http://www.villaliberty.org/theblacks.html

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER WITH PEDIGREE ¿YES OR NO?
http://www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html



Last edited by villaliberty on Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:42 am; edited 2 times in total

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ELIBOZE
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:31 am

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Hubbard's Lena, Dibo grand dam on top was solid black!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:38 am

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This is why it makes no sense to me and why it seems ppl believe who they want to. If Eli is supposed to be off nigger with his ped of Jeff a Buckskin to Baby a Chocolate. Why is that not at question when both are heavy Dibo. Other than Black Widow off Black Shine what's the difference. That's why the Mayfield version makes no sense either and even his yard was not dominate black like Floyd's. Maybe Tudor did pull a fast one with the old black jack stuff and was man for that reason that Floyd got it and wasn't supposed to heavy. I find no reason to believe that Nigger should've produce Eli and made a dominant blk line either though.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=99374


Bo

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:14 am

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www.xpert-dogs.com/

Some interesting information contained here...HISTORY

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Mrs. X
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:40 am

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Eliboze, it does not mater if Dibo's granddam was black. Black is not recessive, black is dominant. When you lose black, it is gone, It doesn't matter if Lena was black, because by the time it got to Dibo, her black was gone, vanished from the genetic record. Poof. Doesn't exist.

So where did it come from again?

Now, I am not going to say Nigger was Eli's sire. I don't know that, and am not sure enough of the evidence to ascertain that. But I am sure enough of the evidence to say that Eli was not bred the way his pedigree states. And I am pretty certain Nigger wasn't bred the way his pedigree says either. Again, black dog coming out of buckskin and chocolate dogs?

I also find it interesting that not only have there been blue dogs that have popped up on Boudreaux' yard in the past, someone posted an inbred Mayfield litter with BLUE PUPS.
I find it VERY interesting indeed, when it is said the blue came from The Ruffian, who himself was said to be higher percentage Black Jack then his pedigree states. A picture of The Ruffian can be found on page 9 of the history link and to me, he has still what I think of as an Eli head, more so than a staff head for all he's cropped. My mind can add the ears back and get an image of a black brindle "Eli" dog.
Also very interesting is on that same page is a blue staff bitch.. and this is what it says about her..
"Clifford used Lloyd's Dappy Girl, blue-brindle Ruffian bitch for that outcross. Color confirms her strong Tudor's Henry background."

I remember that Staff link from years ago. It's very nice to see the site is still up. I had not thought of it in years, but I recall discussing many of the points made on that site with Lara of Hartagold Kennels (RIP). To this day, she is the ONLY pit/staff breeder that produced dogs that I could bear to look at. Her dogs were White Rock based, which was Ruffian based which was Black Jack based.
She was truly a breed advocate, and it's a shame that neither the heart she was born with, nor the heart she got later own were strong enough for her spirit. I miss her.

OK enough being maudlin.
First page of the history link
http://www.xpert-dogs.com/History.html
"But Tudor's dogs were mostly black part of the Henry line, when Charles Smith's dogs were more of the red part of the Henry line and more outcrossed than Tudor's. Tudor's part of Bennett's Mack pedigree was Tudor's Jack II, son of the great Tudor's Black Jack 16xW."
Remember what it said above about blue confirming the strong Tudor's Henry background?
Have a look at the X-Pert Torpedo dog's head.
The picture the site has of Black Jack is wrong.
That would make three pictures of three different dogs all saying they're the same dog.
Have a look at the Black jack on that site, then have a look at the Black Jack's on this this site.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=307445

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=15094
The last dog is the real Gr Ch Black Jack 16xw. I don't know who the black and white dogs are, but that dog is the sire of this dog

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=16075
Now compare
the looks of those dogs with Eli and Nigger. Look at the head, the ear set, the shape of the eyes... Now look at the pictures of Scrub, of Blind Billy and of Dibo. If Eli was SOOO inbred on Dibo, why did he not look more like him?
Why does Blue Mike, the grandsire of Black Jack look like what I call a buckskin Eli dog? If I showed up with Blue Mike and said he was a Nigerino dog, no one would blink twice at him.

I am not saying I am right, except about one thing, and that was that Eli is not bred the way his pedigree says he was bred. I do not know how he was bred, this is me using a best guess. We KNOW he wasn't some scatterbred crap that was found on a back lot somewhere. We know this because he produced too good. Therefor he had to have been bred well to begin with.
This makes me think what could he have been bred off that a man would not mind hanging papers off, because he knew how good the blood was behind the dog? Well, it would not be considered paperhanging if the dog came from Tudor lines and was given a Tudor pedigree.

Did it have to be from Ruffian lines? Of COURSE NOT. It could have been some Tacoma Staff stuff, which also had a high amount of Black Jack in it,. It's been so long I forgot about that, thinking of the Tacoma fighting staffs as more red in color, but here you go.. Page 10...
"Doyle's Tacoma line was built on Brown's Tacoma Jack, Feeley and Clark's bloods. Charles Doyle obtained 2 pups from Al Brown or Grey Wolf as dogmen called him. Both were by Tacoma Jack. But Al Brown was known as breeder of Tudor's Black Jack dogs and Black Jack blood was his main interest. Al Brown puchased famous Tudor's Black Jack Jr from Earl Tudor after 9-th win of Jack Jr. There are some talks that Black Jack Jr had at least one or two more wins in Brown hands, but under different name, cos noone wanted to challenge Jack Jr after such a great pit carrier. I believe these thoughts are true and I think Brown's using different name of Black Jack Jr was the main cause that most of his stuff was poisoned in 1939 or 40."
And when I look at that Tacoma Jack Replica dog, I see a dog that looks like an Eli dog.
Actually, it would make more sense for Tudor to use blood from a dogman that used his blood than from a show kennel even if Har-Wyn kennel was rolling their dogs back behind the barn, lol.

That site is a good one, but I wouldn't bother past page 11. That is where the line between old time fighting staffs and show staffs happens. There's nothing past that of any interested to a pit dog historian.

Most of these old time dog men were cagey about giving you the correct pedigree ANYWAY. They didn't want people to have their secret family recipe. Close enough was good enough for them. And I think that is what we're seeing in the Eli and Nigger pedigrees.
I could be wrong about the source of the black that caused the Eli dogs, but I am NOT wrong about WHY I am saying these dogs are not bred that way.
I know the genetics and genetics do not lie. If someone can explain to me where I am getting my genetics wrong, that would be fine by me and I would welcome the opportunity to learn something new.

K


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:17 pm

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Very nice post. An for those who want to know about bo's breeding. Call pasty. She will gladly tell you what her dad told her an why.

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ELIBOZE
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:04 am

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Berklley, I don't know what the unknown factor is but Eli hounds I've seen look nothing like Mayfield dogs.....and if their bred similiar where are the plethora of Mayfield performers and producers......Eli hounds are renown worldwide for their performance.....

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:15 pm

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damn yall fucked me a youngun up wit this and im a big fan of the eli dogs thru all, still scrathing my head but if u have did and studyin on the eli hounds buddy have some good points, and the Lengends as yall say aint gonna tell it, so history is history all we can do is improve it and like mr. henry told earl one thing in the game u will have to learn is to cheated lol so did he really breed staff into them who really know but the legends and once again i dont believe they will tell it

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:55 am

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Well, I am writing about this subject first in spanish for latter to translate in english the write. I think that already I finish the write in spanish. Tomorrow I will try to translate it in english, is dificult and hard for me translate this work, but Little to Little I will doing it, I enjoy with it lol.

Now I add here the write in spanish and son also I will add here the same write in english, because I know that in this place there many people that undertand the spanish lenguaje.

When I will have finish all this work in english, also I will add all this in Web site, in the next links:

English:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html
Spanish:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

In English by Internet translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

Mariano Peinado

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Last edited by villaliberty on Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:45 am; edited 3 times in total

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:19 pm

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I'm still working on this issue, I have not forgotten, lol.

Sigo trabajando en este asunto, no me he olvidado, jajaja

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:12 am

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Whence comes the black color to the ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they are all family of Tudor's "DIBO" and this was buckskin color? - DOGS OF HENRY.

Pedigree Online TUDOR'S "DIBO"
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=9

Some say that the ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX (all family TUDOR'S "DIBO") UNLAWFUL dogs are not having the same buckskin color that had "DIBO" dogs.

I do not deny that the color buckskin was a common color in the dogs "DIBO" family of course not, but also within the "DIBO" there were other family buckskin different colors, such as the color of your WHITE Children " ROCK "," CRY BABY "among others.

Pedigree Online FIAPBT TUDOR'S "WHITE ROCK":
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=35828

Pedigree Online FIAPBT (TUDOR) START'S "CRY BABY":
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=26939

INBRED CROSSROADS AND TOOL SELECTION FOSTER CAN DO AND UNDO THE GENETIC BASIS OF DOGS IN A BREEDER GOALS, WHETHER COLORS, SIZES, ATTITUDES, CHARACTERS, etc..

BOUDREAUX '"SCRUB" is an inbred animal, raising a fourfold BOUDREAUX' "BLIND BILLY". "SCRUB" the son, grandson, great-grandson and great-grandson of "BLIND BILLY" all at the same time. A "SCRUB" is also crossed inbred way a daughter of '"BLIND BILLY" and granddaughter of CANNON'S "BLACK SHINE" call BOUDREAUX' "CANDY" and the crossing out BOUDREAUX '"ELI" of BLACK color due to the CONSANGUINITY. BOUDREAUX '"ELI" was the founder of the known dogs "ELI".

Pedigree Online FIAPBT BOUDREAUX '"SCRUB"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=4088

Pedigree Online FIAPBT BOUDREAUX '"ELI"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=34

Pictured Pedigree Online's daughter "DIBO" call HEINZL'S "POLLY" (color buckskin), we can see the puppies "POLLY" was crossed when the brother from the same litter of "DIBO" HEINZL'S " ARIZONA PETE "(buckskin color), within which we can observe puppies of various colors including also the BLACK color due to CONSANGUINITY.

Pedigree Online HEINZL'S "POLLY"
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=1496

The black color was also characteristic within the "DIBO" family. The black color gene came to "DIBO" in different ways.

Crossing TUDOR'S "DIBO" with TUDOR'S (HEINZL) "DINAH" gene black color genetics of the descendants of "DIBO" his son TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK JR was introduced by TUDOR'S" BLACK JACK " "Dogs and Englishmen Henry.

Another way for example, black was the genetics of color English dogs which provided the paternal great-grandfather "DIBO" CORVINO'S "GIMP". But the most direct way that the gene of the black color came to "DIBO" was through his paternal grandmother HUBBARD'S "LENA", which is descended from TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK", which is three times in his fifth generation, two in the sixth and seventh generation. HUBBARD'S "LENA" also descended from other good black dogs.

Pedigree Online HUBBARD'S "LENA"
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=174

TUDOR'S "DIBO" HEINZL'S "ARIZONA PETE" BOUDREAUX '"BLIND BILLY" etc.. although of buckskin color, black color gene also already had within their genes by genetic inheritance received. "DIBO" in different ways, transmitted to his descendants a slight increase in weight and the gene for black color, especially on the road that goes through your child CANNON'S "BLACK SHINE".

"BLACK SHINE" in turn, sent the "DIBO" family a slight increase in weight and the gene for black color by BOUDREAUX '"CANDY" (Mother of BOUDREAUX' "ELI") BOUDREAUX '"PEGGY" ( Grandma BOUDREAUX '"SPOOK") etc.. thanks to the extraordinary work of parenting by F. Boudreaux in this regard.

Pedigree Online CANNON'S "BLACK SHINE" (55Lb.)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=163

On the other hand, "BLACK SHINE" also transmitted the gene black color through her daughter CARVER'S "BLACK WIDOW" if this was crossed with his grandfather, TUDOR'S own "DIBO". Some of the males resulting from this litter, specifically CARVER'S "CRACKER" and CARVER'S "LASSO" were crossed with inbred way CARVER'S "JUDY" litter sister CARVER'S "BLACK WIDOW" with so the black color factor gene in the "DIBO" family increased considerably with the results of these litters, for example: CARVER'S (TOM) "BIG BLACK" ("CRACKER" X "JUDY").

Pedigree Online CARVER'S "BLACK WIDOW":
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=8

Pedigree Online FIAPBT CARVER'S (TOM) "BIG BLACK"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=372

In the following link, can appreciate the enormous physical resemblance between "BIG BLACK" and called dogs "ELI" and "BLACK" today:
http://www http://www.villaliberty.org/Tom.htm .villaliberty.org / TomRobinson.html

Crossing CARVER'S "BLACK WIDOW" with his paternal grandfather TUDOR'S "DIBO" came an extraordinary female named CARVER'S "BLACK GIRL", which was the mother of one of the best American Pit Bull Terrier of all time low In my view, CARVER'S "IRONHEAD" which launched many good dogs and some were black.

Pedigree Online FIAPBT CARVERS "BLACK GIRL":
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=384

Pedigree Online CARVER'S "IRONHEAD"
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=25124

INBRED CROSSROADS AND TOOL SELECTION FOSTER CAN DO AND UNDO THE GENETIC BASIS OF DOGS IN A BREEDER GOALS, WHETHER COLORS, SIZES, ATTITUDES, CHARACTERS, etc..

Within the development of all the work of raising that time, the old "Silver Fox" Maurice Carver was introduced to these animals in their veins and extraordinary qualities genotype virtues that made them stand out, qualities and virtues that previously did not have and black color was a simple but excellent guide phenotype indicative and to recognize and understand, who was on the right track in what Carver wanted to get on with their breeding dogs from the "DIBO" family.

Thanks to the tremendous work of parenting by Maurice Carver through his experience, wisdom and through its tool SELECTION FOSTER, was consolidated within the canine breed American Pit Bull Terrier for today known as "BLACK" , from dogs "ELI", especially "BULLYSON", "ELI Jr." and "BRENDY" they all heavily laden and genetically from the "DIBO" family specifically these three specimens have 69% each These genetic or blood "DIBO" or genetically is like children and grandchildren almost simultaneously TUDOR'S "DIBO" genetic treasure indeed. A worthy representative of this last example is inbred "Stomp".

Pedigree Online FIAPBT P. CARVER'S "Stomp":
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=150

Pedigree Online FIAPBT WALLING'S "BULLYSON"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=51
Pedigree Online WALLING'S "BULLYSON"
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=51

Pedigree Online FIAPBT CLAYTON'S "ELI JR"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=23
Pedigree Online CLAYTON'S "ELI JR"
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=23

Pedigree Online FIAPBT CLEMMONS '"BRENDY"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=205
Pedigree Online CLEMMONS '"BRENDY"
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=205

In modern times, the dogs "DIBO" family mostly characterized by black color due to CONSANGUINITY and circumstances already explained. The animals of "DIBO" today, mostly from family are dogs "ELI" especially those referred to as "BLACK", being the branch or genetic strain of canine breed American Pit Bull Terrier, which currently have the highest percentage of genetics TUDOR'S "DIBO" fresh, vigorous, alive and very much in keeping times today

DOGS OF FRANK G. HENRY.

Henry bought his first American Pit Bull Terrier by importing Richmond, England around 1895. Henry HENRY'S call the animal "RICHMOND". Henry was so pleased with the performance of this animal, that most subsequent parenting plan was based primarily on it. Within the plan of raising Henry, also used different crosses with LLOYD'S "PILOT" and dogs Swineford'S "KING PADDY" DELIHANT and COLBY which came all of England, time enough before the time of the dogs we are trying in this chapter.

Pedigree Online FIAPBT HENRY'S "RICHMOND"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=43864

Pedigree Online FIAPBT HENRY'S "ROSEMOND"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=99498

Pedigree Online FIAPBT CHARLIE LLOYD'S "PILOT"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=12598

Pedigree Online FIAPBT TUDOR'S (HENRY) "BLACK STAR":
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=49157

Pedigree Online FIAPBT Swineford'S "KING PADDY"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=15086

Pedigree Online FIAPBT DELIHANT'S "MONKEY"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=82236

Pedigree Online FIAPBT DELIHANT'S "PADDY"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=90817

Pedigree Online FIAPBT TUDOR'S (HENRY) "JACK SWIFT"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=49153

Pedigree Online FIAPBT TUDOR'S "JUDGE"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=69184

Pedigree Online FIAPBT HENRY'S "RED TODDY"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=43853

Pedigree Online FIAPBT HENRY'S "Shellbark"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=327008

Henry's dogs were characterized among other things by their physical strength, hyperactivity and powerful mouth. As for color, Henry dogs were usually black, white and brindle color with red eyes. Ever had any dark brown (chocolate).

What I did not like dogs Henry, was his lack of mental balance and intelligence, and that these were hot dogs and half crazy. It is sometimes so excited that even came to bite their owners. From this circumstance some people testified including Flo, the wife of Earl Tudor, which say that when attending these tasks exercising dogs in her yard, she had checked the hardness of the bite of the dogs in their own Henry legs, showing the scars of bites and was bitten when I was hit with a hammer to break free.

The culmination of raising dogs using Tudor Earl Henry, was reflected in his dog Black Jack and especially through his son Jack Jr. Black black brindle color. The first American Pit Bull Terrier that Earl Tudor had owned, were Henry dogs.

Pedigree Online FIAPBT TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK":
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=15094

Pedigree Online FIAPBT TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK JR"
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=16075

Some mention the possibility that BOUDREAUX '"ELI" and MAYFIELD'S "NIGGER" are direct descendants of TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK" and his son TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK JR." (Both father and son came from these dogs HENRY and above) by its black color and its physical resemblance. We must not forget that we are talking about dogs of the same breed of dog, which is not surprising at all if any of these specimens show similar to one another, is standard that may occur between individuals of the same race and why not mean they have to be much less direct family or breeders of these dogs were lying in their respective upbringings when these breeds were reflected in their pedigrees.

What happens is that some breeders of competition sometimes tend to have bad intentions, through lies and gossip invent hoaxes to discredit one way or another those who consider genetic competitive with which they breed, and want to remove them from among a mean and petty manner. It also often happens that some people wish to discredit the Official pedigree breed (ADBA) because their dogs do not, then also by inventing lies and gossip hoaxes to discredit the effectiveness of Official pedigree breed, thinking that if achieved, their dogs would be revalued in the eyes of fans with little experience in the breed.

Another thing related to the latter but quite different, when some breeders selling any of their dogs without pedigree because they had some suspicion with the buyer, as it could make them competitive in the future and did not want to facilitate their knowledge of his many years experience in raising certain people, which did not inspire the confidence necessary to deliver the pedigree from which they could acquire such knowledge. So it might be that not actually tell the truth to the buyer how the animal was raised, hence the saying that some breeders did not want some people have their secret recipe of how they had been bred their dogs.

Conversely, when they gave the puppy with pedigree that was something else, was completely different, because in the pedigree was impregnated by the word and honor ALWAYS breeder, as it had been throughout life, this was sacred to the Good breeders and kennels (Dogmen).

TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK", his son TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK JR." And dogs Henry, as I noted above, came from before the time of the dogs we are dealing in this chapter times, so I do not believe close to be treated as direct ancestors of BOUDREAUX '"ELI" and MAYFIELD'S "NIGGER" is only absurd to contemplate.

However in my personal opinion and who really do believe it is in the breeding work, honesty, honor and word of breeders and kennels (dogmen), word and honor that placed all his confidence and so visible in the Official Pedigrees ADBA today, so that now we question the honesty, the word and the work of a lifetime of these gentlemen deceased mostly on principle I refuse to question this issue, I feel.

I'm not saying all breeders of yesteryear were not saints, and even on occasion there falsehood and breach of promise in some of these old timers with one of their dogs (as is the case with any other dishonest breeders breed dogs), but when the ADBA became aware of falsity or fraud at the time (and even today, the ADBA continues to make a commendable research work in the service of truth prevails pedigrees), annulled or amended according to pedigree questioned the truth, that the TRUTH prevail against everything and everyone, especially for the defense of good and pure and true race fans, who are none other than his honest well meaning amateurs.

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER PEDIGREE WITH OR IF NO:
www.fiapbt.net / pedigreesi.html

I think with the information provided, they can get an idea to better understand from where the black color within the genetics of ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs and popularly known as "BLACK", all from the family "DIBO ".

Mariano Peinado
Villa Liberty kennels


Related With This issue in Inglés:

@ "THE BLACKS"
http://www.villaliberty.org/theblacks.html

@ CARVER'S (DAVIS) "MIDNIGHT COWBOY":
http://www.villaliberty.org/midnightcowboy..html

@ THE LEGEND OF GENETIC TO CALLED "MAURICE CARVER" AND TRIBUTE:
http://www.villaliberty.org/legend.html

@ MAURICE CARVER MUSEUM:
http://www.fiapbt.net/museumcarver.html

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER PEDIGREE WITH YES or NO?:
Http://www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html

--------

Chapters concerning this subject in Spanish:

@ STORY "BLACK" www.villaliberty.org/losnegros.html 

@ VIDEO "BLACK":
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=afVsbawKASA

@ CARVER'S (DAVIS) "MIDNIGHT COWBOY":
http://www.villaliberty.org/midnightcowboy.html

@ TRIBUTE TO MAURICE CARVER IN VIDEO:
www.youtube.com/watch?hl=es&gl=ES&v=M4DnGJAMZDw

@ GENETICS OF LEGEND CALLED "MAURICE CARVER" AND TRIBUTE: www.villaliberty.org/laleyenda.html

@ MUSEUM OF MAURICE CARVER:
www.fiapbt.net/museumcarver.html 

_________________
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http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

"In honor to the truth and the right, I think We Should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE Within the society in Which We Live."


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Butcher
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:59 am

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berkley_160 wrote:

Already wrote:

WHAT'S ALREADY UNDERSTOOD DOESN'T NEED TO BE EXSPLAINED!! GREAT POST!!!!



Lolol. Apparently a lot of things are not understood, especially basic genetics.
It's not a good post, it is a poorly written vomiting of something anyone could have learned from reading the Stratton books.
But let's go back to that whole genetics thing...
Class is in session. What color was Dibo, Bambi and Arizona Pete. They were all tan/buckskin dogs.
What color was Blind Billy?
He was a buckskin dog.
What color was Scrub?
He was red/buckskin.
Not only that, but the red/buckskin Dibo bred dogs were in the 40 lb range.

So tell me again where BLACK as night, 50 lber Eli and his ilk came from.
And when you do that, LOOK at the pictures, and tell me where the head and body came from too, because there is nothing in Eli that resembles anything in the Dibo dogs.
It's funny, because I was just having this conversation with someone else...

I will say this... Eli and Mayfield's Nigger DO resemble a certain other Tudor dog. Black Jack.
Go on and have a look at Black Jack and Black Jack Jr. Compare them with Eli and Nigger and then compare Eli and Nigger with Blind Billy and Dibo.

While you do this, remember your genetics. Where does the black come from. You can try to say it's from Black Shine, but don't forget, HE was bred to a red bitch. How do we know this? Her parents were Booger Red and Amber Girl.
Could Sherrer's Tammy then have been black?
Yes indeed, but do not forget her sire was the son of a dog named Red Man.
Could Candy, then have been black.
Again, possible, but with ALL THAT RED/BUCKSKIN/BROWN breeding... the likelihood if the dogs being black dwindle and dwindle and dwindle.

And then let's look at what was on Mr Boudreaux' yard... Black black black dogs. IF Candy was black, and produced the black Eli, who was then in and line bred on on Boudreaux' yard, there should have been many many many more buckskin eli dogs coming from his yard than black.
Now, I don't claim to know everything, and it is after 2:30 in the morning, but other than Art, where are the buckskin eli dogs?
Honeybunch doesn't count, we all know Bullyson wasn't her real sire, so again, where are the buckskin Eli dogs?

I honestly cannot think of any, but I do know of one odd color that pops up on Boudreaux' yard once in a while..
Blue.
Yup, staff blue is known to have popped up in those black black black Boudreaux dogs. Skull is known to have spit at least two, and they're not the only blues, Boudreaux has admitted this himself, but the other blues just didn't survive until double bred Skull dog Titan's Rook Ghost came around. Then yet another blue Boudreaux dog off Skull was born.

I have a reason for mentioning these mysterious blue Boudreaux dogs.
See, I believe the black Blind Billy dogs that mysteriously appeared and changed the look of a bloodline over night came from Black Jack, who I mentioned before. If you pull up the pictures of Black Jack, and Black Jack Jr, and Look at Eli and Nigger, you will see a MARKED resemblance.
What I think is that Tudor got a hold of some of his old Black Jack blood. Now if you know about the history of the breed, you will know that at that point in time, the strongest concentration of Black Jack was in staffs, specifically the Ruffian dogs.
And this is why I believe that on occasion, Boudreax dogs will throw blue.

As a little bit of fun, you may want to go have a look at Loposay Dot and Dubs...
Funny, but I never saw jet black Colby dogs that looked just like Eli dogs before or after those two dogs. And Bo looks nothing like them, nor does HE look like a Colby dog.
If Dot and Dubs are not off Eli blood, then they just might be off what was used to create Eli.

I am fully aware I may be way off base. But what I do know is that genetics make Eli's pedigree a lie, based on what he threw, and how his descendents produced. It was counter to how his ancestors produced. That just doesn't happen over night in one litter.

K

Damm
I'm so glad sum1 said wat I was thinking!


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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:40 am

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Chriscoi, I really appreciate you good intention to translate the writing, but that translation was a bad draft. However, I think that your translation is through the Internet translator right?

I would like to leave the translation as understandable as possible to avoid misunderstandings and correct understanding comes to all concerned in this matter.

Thank you very much my friend Smile

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:46 am

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Well, I think that this write already is finish in spanish lenguaje. For the moment I add this write in english by Internet translation, is not good translation but I think that in 4 or 5 days I can add here my bad translation of this write that is better that the Internet translation lol.

You can see the write in Web site, I think that is much better than here, because you can see many pictures, colours, etc. etc. You can see it in the next links:

In English by Internet translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

In English:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html
In Spanish:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

However, If you want to collaborate with me doing here a good translation because my english is not good, please send me the good translation to:
fiapbt@fiapbt.net

THANK YOU in advance.

Mariano Peinado

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Last edited by villaliberty on Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:17 am; edited 2 times in total

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:09 pm

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Wow! That was one of the most interesting writing's I've read! Excellent rebuttal. Thank you.

~Mr Mark

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 HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER (PAG 4)

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GuitarSlim
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:10 pm

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The black in them dogz come from the old Henry dogs Tudor had. Thats why they can be bred so tight. He liked them dogz more then the Dibo dogs nd was to have the Eli style. No one really kno how the Henry dogz are post to be bref. Was said to be from Greenland Ireland area. Where everyone kno where the Dibo blood come from. But it do make since for that blood to be bred some many years so tight base on almost on one dog who himself is very inbreed. Wen o was told this it made since do I blieve everything no cuz to black ppl can make a white person genetic engineering. But is it enough black in them dogs to make the eli line heavily black.... Just my two centz.....

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GuitarSlim
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:11 pm

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The black in them dogz come from the old Henry dogs Tudor had. Thats why they can be bred so tight. He liked them dogz more then the Dibo dogs nd was to have the Eli style. No one really kno how the Henry dogz are post to be bref. Was said to be from Greenland Ireland area. Where everyone kno where the Dibo blood come from. But it do make since for that blood to be bred some many years so tight base on almost on one dog who himself is very inbreed. Wen o was told this it made since do I blieve everything no cuz to black ppl can make a white person genetic engineering. But is it enough black in them dogs to make the eli line heavily black.... Just my two centz.....

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boris
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:11 pm

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These are always good arguments. I like these topics because usually some intelligent people chime in and it makes for good reading and entertainment. I don't mind trying to translate broken English if there is some real thought behind it. Good debate

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:02 am

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Well, I think that this write already is finish in spanish lenguaje. For the moment I add this write in english by Internet translation, is not good translation sorry.

You can see the write in Web site, I think that is much better than here, because you can see many pictures, colours, etc. etc. You can see the write in the next links:

In English by Internet translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

English web site:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html



Last edited by villaliberty on Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:28 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Butcher
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:30 am

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pitbullkorner wrote:

This is why it makes no sense to me and why it seems ppl believe who they want to. If Eli is supposed to be off nigger with his ped of Jeff a Buckskin to Baby a Chocolate. Why is that not at question when both are heavy Dibo. Other than Black Widow off Black Shine what's the difference. That's why the Mayfield version makes no sense either and even his yard was not dominate black like Floyd's. Maybe Tudor did pull a fast one with the old black jack stuff and was man for that reason that Floyd got it and wasn't supposed to heavy. I find no reason to believe that Nigger should've produce Eli and made a dominant blk line either though.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=99374


Bo

berkley 160 didn't mean mayfield's n.... Berkley 160 is saying maybe the lineage is down from this guy:
Image
Really it doesn't matter now but to each his own. I have learned over the years u can't wonder how sum1 else's dogs r bred. Just breed your stuff rite. & remember jokers will do n e thing for a buck.


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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:50 am

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drfreak92 wrote:

Wow! That was one of the most interesting writing's I've read! Excellent rebuttal. Thank you.

~Mr Mark



Your welcome. I am Glad to hear you. I appreciate and I thank you to tell me it, for to my knowledge.

I have supplemented and updated the written in spanish, to facilitate more information, more reading comfort, more entertainment and better understanding.

I'm still looking for someone brave translator, of spanish to english lol lol.

You can see the write in Web site, I think that is much better than here, because you can see many pictures, colours, etc. etc. You can see the write in the next links:

In English by Internet translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

English web site:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

However, If you want to collaborate with me doing a good or regular translation of my write because I forget so much my english and right now is not good, please send me the good translation to:
fiapbt@fiapbt.net I will add your translater credit, of course.

You can take the original Spanish version for the translate in:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

THANK YOU in advance.

Mariano Peinado
________________
Villa Liberty kennels:
http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”

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Last edited by villaliberty on Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:41 am; edited 3 times in total

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:12 am

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Some people already have called this write, "The writing of the year".
I do not think it's, but it's nice to hear it. Thank you!!!

Mariano Peinado

"Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs."

In English web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

In English by Internet bad translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

In Spanish web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:01 pm

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Information diverse regarding to this matter from this post continue in: http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=236707

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pitbullkorner
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:37 pm

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Butcher wrote:

pitbullkorner wrote:

This is why it makes no sense to me and why it seems ppl believe who they want to. If Eli is supposed to be off nigger with his ped of Jeff a Buckskin to Baby a Chocolate. Why is that not at question when both are heavy Dibo. Other than Black Widow off Black Shine what's the difference. That's why the Mayfield version makes no sense either and even his yard was not dominate black like Floyd's. Maybe Tudor did pull a fast one with the old black jack stuff and was man for that reason that Floyd got it and wasn't supposed to heavy. I find no reason to believe that Nigger should've produce Eli and made a dominant blk line either though.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=99374


Bo

berkley 160 didn't mean mayfield's n.... Berkley 160 is saying maybe the lineage is down from this guy:
Image
Really it doesn't matter now but to each his own. I have learned over the years u can't wonder how sum1 else's dogs r bred. Just breed your stuff rite. & remember jokers will do n e thing for a buck.



That's a first. I only ever heard of the Mayfield's Nigger and the Cotton and Crybaby theory. Like you said though we can only really say what we do ourselves.


Bo

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:14 am

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drfreak92 wrote:

Wow! That was one of the most interesting writing's I've read! Excellent rebuttal. Thank you.

~Mr Mark



Excuse me the delay in translation, in a few days will be completely finished the translations, I have not forgotten about it lol.

The write title: "Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs."

In English web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

In English by Internet bad translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

In Spanish web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

Information diverse regarding to this matter from this post continue in:
http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=236707

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:43 am

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hound wrote:

very nice read thank u



Your welcome. I am glad that you liked this job. Thank you for let me know it. Mariano Peinado

(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
Like the promised is debt, then already I translated the report as best I could. Also is updated and more complete.

@ Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

I wish and hope that with this work you will enjoy with it and serve to clear some doubts to you.

THANK YOU!!!

Mariano Peinado
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html

________________
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http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”


--------------------------

ESPAÑOL

Como lo prometido es deuda, ya está traducido el reportaje lo mejor que he podido. También está actualizado y más completo.

@ ¿De dónde le viene el color NEGRO a los perros ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX, siendo que todos ellos son de la familia de Tudor´s “DIBO” y este era de color buckskin? - LOS PERROS DE HENRY: www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

Espero y deseo que este trabajo sea de su agrado y sirva para despejar algunas dudas.

¡¡¡GRACIAS!!!

Mariano Peinado
P.D. Para mayor información diversa que puedas necesitar, puedes adquirirla en: FIAPBT FORUM: www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/informacion.html

________________
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“En honor a la verdad y lo correcto, creo que no deberíamos cerrar los ojos para permitir que la maldad y la injusticia SE NORMALICEN dentro de la sociedad en la que vivimos.”

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Last edited by villaliberty on Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:15 am; edited 2 times in total

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:52 pm

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(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
For those who say that ALL dogs of Henry were black color, inform them that they are wrong. This people wrong about the color, if wish it they will can learn about this subject since other reliable sources, and also inside the article that I wrote recently entitled:

@ Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

I wish and hope that with this work you will enjoy with it and serve to clear some doubts to you.

THANK YOU!!!

Mariano Peinado
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html

________________
Villa Liberty kennels:
http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”


--------------------------

ESPAÑOL

Para aquellos que dicen que TODOS los perros de Henry eran de color negro, informarles que están equivocados. Pueden informarse de este dato por otras fuentes que sean confiables, y también dentro de mi reportaje titulado:

@ ¿De dónde le viene el color NEGRO a los perros ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX, siendo que todos ellos son de la familia de Tudor´s “DIBO” y este era de color buckskin? - LOS PERROS DE HENRY: www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

Espero y deseo que este trabajo sea de su agrado y sirva para despejar algunas dudas.

¡¡¡GRACIAS!!!

Mariano Peinado
P.D. Para mayor información diversa que puedas necesitar, puedes adquirirla en: FIAPBT FORUM: www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/informacion.html

________________
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:24 am

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HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER (Part 2)
http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=236707

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:06 am

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R Gangs kennel did good things in his moment for the breed and one of them was, that R Gangs kennel preserved the genetic or blood at 100% purity of Carver Dogs, very important thing to take note by the excellent and beneficial work did for the breed and his fans, worthy mention about it like a deserved tribute in nowadays.

R Gangs kennel post:
http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=240365

Mariano Peinado
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www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html
________________
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:32 am

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CHRISTMAS, precious moment to remember a nice American Pit Bull Terrier history...

NAVIDADES, precioso momento para recordar una bonita historia del American pit Bull Terrier...

Mariano Peinado

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 HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER (PAG 5)

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:55 am

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ADBA = Pit Bull Canine Mother at International scope

(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
In Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153062101016133/?type=1&theater

Image

After the MARATHONPIT hard work... In the picture, left to right:

MISS PATCHES”:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=205818

RED AKER”:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=262006

RED KROM”:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=243608

Pit Bull Pedigree (papers) = ADBA = Pit Bull Canine Mother at International scope = Pedigrees control and not validate false Pedigrees = Excellent and honest ADBA job trying to keep the TRUTH and maintain alive the Official Genealogy of the breed in over the time = Keep alive Officially the Pit Bull defence in various aspects, so that the children of our grandchildren will can continue to enjoy these wonderful animals when the time comes.

@ THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, A PURE BREED DOG:
www.fiapbt.net/purebreeddog.htm

@ APBT OFFICIAL PEDIGREE:
www.fiapbt.net/officialpedigree.html

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER WITH PEDIGREE ¿YES OR NO?:
www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html

In the ADBA, not only competes in Weight Pulling and Conformation events, also are doing ADBA “Top Dog” event:
www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=174&pg=174

Mariano Peinado
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html

________________
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http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”



---------------------------

ESPAÑOL

En Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153062101016133/?type=1&theater

Image

Tras el duro esfuerzo del MARATHONPIT... En la fotografía de izquierda a derecha:

MISS PATCHES”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=205818

RED AKER”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=262006

RED KROM”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=243608

Pedigree (papeles) del Pit Bull = ADBA = Canina Madre en ámbito Internacional del Pit Bull = Control de Pedigrees y no validar falsos Pedigríes = Excelente trabajo y honesto de la ADBA por intentar mantener la VERDAD y mantener viva la Genealogía Oficial de la raza en el transcurso del tiempo = Mantener Oficialmente viva la defensa del Pit Bull en diversos aspectos, para que los hijos de nuestros nietos puedan seguir disfrutando de estos maravillosos animalitos llegado el momento.

@ EL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, UNA PURA RAZA CANINA: www.fiapbt.net/razacanina.html

@ PEDIGREE OFICIAL: www.fiapbt.net/4.html

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER CON PEDIGREE ¿SI O NO?: www.fiapbt.net/pedigreesi.html

En la ADBA, no solo se compite en eventos de Arrastre de Peso y Conformación, también se realizan eventos ADBA “Top Dog”: www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=174&pg=174

Mariano Peinado
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:18 pm

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ARE POSSIBLE GENES REDNOSE IN BLACK DOG LIKE MIDNIGHT COWBOY? - ¿SON POSIBLE GENES RED NOSE EN UN APBT NEGRO COMO MIDNIGHT COWBOY?

Poll -
Encuesta: http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=249635

CARVER'S (DAVIS) “MIDNIGHT COWBOY
http://www.villaliberty.org/midnightcowboy..html (English versión)
http://www.villaliberty.org/midnightcowboy.html (Versión en Español)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:22 am

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MAURICE CARVER T-R-I-B-U-T-E in Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153152730586133/?type=1&theater - www.fiapbt.net/carvertribute.htm

H-O-M-E-N-A-J-E A MAURICE CARVER en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153152730586133/?type=1&theater - www.fiapbt.net/carvertribute.htm



Maurice Carver to the right of the picture in his heyday, with his wife Pat Carver and his good friend Jim Rorex.

Maurice Carver a la derecha de la fotografía en sus buenos tiempos, junto con su esposa Pat Carver y su buen amigo Jim Rorex.


Mariano Peinado – FIAPBT – IADCRO
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:09 am

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(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
MAURICE CARVER VISIT TO HIS FRIENDS FROM MEXICO IN THE 60S. Special mention to Enrique Morfin and Ramiro Morales.



Picture 1: Luis García, Maurice Carver and Ramiro Morales

Picture 2: Enrique Morfin, Ray Long and Maurice Carver in Monterrey in the 60s.

Picture 3: In this rare picture, we can observe in the left part to Pat and Maurice Carver, visiting to his very good Mexican friends; Jesus Araiza, Ramiro Morales, Gustavo Araiza, Miguel Hinojosa handling to “HERCULES”, etc. “HERCULES” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=22670

Picture 4: Enrique Morfin and Ramiro Morales.

Picture 5: CARVER´S (R. MORALES) "NEGRA" (BOUDREAUX' LUPE)
CARVER´S (R. MORALES) "NEGRA" was well known in Mexico like “La Negra Grande” and in the USA like BOUDREAUX “LUPE”.
* "NEGRA" FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=4114
* "NEGRA" Online Pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=4114

* Unpublished pictures of father and grandparents of Carver's "Red Lady" and that never before were seen publicly. Carver's "Red Lady" was the dog female of Mr. Enrique Morfin (DEP) and one of the most important matriarchs of the breed dog American Pit Bull Terrier who has had Mexico:
http://www.villaliberty.org/TomRobinson.html

Dear friends, now ended my account in Online Pedigree, until I come back again to this place, I tell you good bye and wishing to all much good luck.


Mariano Peinado – FIAPBT – IADCRO
Spanish professional military of the earth Army between 1981 and 1985, with the graduation of Cape 1st Artillery.
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html
________________
Villa Liberty kennels:
http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”

"LOVE is the essence of all things."
http://www.fiapbt.net/2013..html

------------------------

ESPAÑOL

MAURICE CARVER VISITA A SUS AMIGOS DE MEXICO EN LOS AÑOS 60. Especial mención a Enrique Morfin y Ramiro Morales.

Foto 1: Luis García, Maurice Carver y Ramiro Morales.

Foto 2: Enrique Morfin, Ray Long y Maurice Carver en Monterrey por la década de los años 60.

Foto 3: En esta rara fotografía, podemos observar en la parte izquierda a Pat y Maurice Carver, visitando a sus muy buenos amigos Mexicanos; Jesús Araiza, Ramiro Morales, Gustavo Araiza, Miguel Hinojosa manejando a “HÉRCULES”, etc. FIAPBT Pedigree Online de “HÉRCULES”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=22670

Foto 4: Enrique Morfin y Ramiro Morales.

Foto 5: CARVER´S (R. MORALES) "NEGRA" (BOUDREAUX' LUPE)
CARVER´S (R. MORALES) "NEGRA" fue muy conocida en México como “La Negra Grande” y en USA como BOUDREAUX´ “LUPE”.
* FIAPBT Pedigree Online de "NEGRA": http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=4114
* Online Pedigree de "NEGRA": http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=4114

* Fotografías inéditas del padre y abuelos de Carver´s “Red Lady” y que nunca antes fueron vistas públicamente. Carver´s “Red Lady” fue la perrita de Don Enrique Morfin (D.E.P.) y una de las matriarcas más importantes de la raza canina American Pit Bull Terrier que ha tenido México: http://www.villaliberty.org/Tom.htm

Estimado amigos, en breve finaliza el plazo de mi cuenta en Online Pedigree, hasta mi vuelta de nuevo a este lugar me despido de todos ustedes con un cordial saludo y deseándoles mucha buena suerte para todos.


Mariano Peinado - FIAPBT - IADCRO
Militar profesional español del ejército de tierra entre los años 1981 y 1985, con la graduación de Cabo 1º de Artillería.
PD. Para mayor información diversa que puedas necesitar, puedes adquirirla en, FIAPBT FORUM: www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:10 am

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(En ESPAÑOL debajo)

Image

In the picture center Ramiro Morales and Maurice Carver.

Image

(CARVER´S) R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” (NEGRITA)
R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” was well known in Mexico like “La Negra Chica” or “La Negra Pequeña”.
“BLACK LADY” in this picture it was showed at a very advanced age.
* “BLACK LADY” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326725
* “BLACK LADY” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this database.)

Image

Ramiro Morales and Mariano Peinado exchanging views about the American Pit Bull Terrier in Villa Liberty kennels, Madrid, Spain.


ESPAÑOL

Image

En el centro de la fotografía Ramiro Morales y Maurice Carver.

Image

(CARVER´S) R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” (NEGRITA)
R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” fue muy conocida en México como “La Negra Chica” o “La Negra Pequeña”. “BLACK LADY” en esta fotografía se mostraba en una edad muy avanzada.
* FIAPBT Pedigree Online de “BLACK LADY”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=326725
* Online Pedigree de “BLACK LADY”: (No existe en esta base de datos.)

Image

Ramiro Morales y Mariano Peinado intercambiando opiniones del American Pit Bull Terrier en Villa Liberty kennels, Madrid, España.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:52 am

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monkey wrote:

Thanks for posting the nice pics. I really enjoy seeing the old timers. And there dogs. Good stuff...thanks AND PEACE!!!



Your welcome, it is nothing. I am glad that you liked this historical information about the American Pit Bull Terrier. Thank you very much for your kind words.

Right now of today will end my account in this place, but before I wish to add here some pictures for your enjoy. Some of this pics never before that now was publicated in none place. I hope that you like it and I suggest you if you liked all this, that you save and keep this information in a safe place for your private collection about the American Pit Bull Terrier, you never know what could happen tomorrow and all this could disappear at any time, lol:

1) MAURICE CARVER and DON DIVINE, two great old timers.
Image

MAURICE CARVER:
https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153152730586133/?type=1&theater


2) LONG´S (CARVER) “TUFFY”.
Image

“TUFFY” was a very good reproducer and full sister of CARVER´S "BANDIDO", HUNTER´S "RED BUCK" and LONG´S (CARVER'S) BABY the MIDNIGHT COWBOY mother and many more.

- LONG´S (CARVER) “TUFFY” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=403

- LONG´S (CARVER) “TUFFY” Online Pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=403


3) CARVER´S (R. MORALES) “ROJO”.
Image

“ROJO” was an extraordinary dog forgotten over the years, like many more.

- CARVER´S (R. MORALES) “ROJO” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326726

- CARVER´S (R. MORALES) “ROJO” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this database.)


4) CARVER´S “BANDIDO”.
Image

CARVER´S "BANDIDO" was the full brother of HUNTER´S "RED BUCK", LONG´S "BABY" AND LONG´S "TUFFY". History live of the breed!!!

- CARVER´S “BANDIDO” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326723

- CARVER´S “BANDIDO” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this database.)


5) CARVER´S “SANDRA”.
Image

- CARVER´S “SANDRA” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=22647

- CARVER´S “SANDRA” Online Pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=22647


6) (KLAUS & CARVER) R. MORALES´ “CLARENCE”.
Image

"CLARENCE”, the half brother of CARVER´S (INDIAN) "BOLIO", was a valuable koehlers gift to RAMIRO MORALES.

- (KLAUS & CARVER) R. MORALES´ “CLARENCE” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326724

- (KLAUS & CARVER) R. MORALES´ “CLARENCE” Online Pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=26885


7) CARVER´S “EL LOCO”.
Image

CARVER´S “EL LOCO”, was the PATRICK´S “TOMBSTONE” full brother. CARVER´S “EL LOCO” was a Carver´s gift to Ramiro Morales. “EL LOCO” was other more extraordinary dog forgotten over the years.


- CARVER´S “EL LOCO” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326790

- CARVER´S “EL LOCO” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this database.)


I wish give thanks to my friends Dwight Stubbs (R.I.P.), Ramiro Morales, Jason Robinson and many more great old timers and Pit Bull lovers all them, which they was given to me hundreds of valuable old and historic pictures, information, etc. for to preserve it and add it to my Pit Bull reports, articles, etc. I think it is PATRIMONY and HERITAGE of our noble and marvelous breed dog, the American Pit Bull Terrier. THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO ALL!!!


Mariano Peinado – FIAPBT – IADCRO
Spanish professional military of the earth Army between 1981 and 1985, with the graduation of Cape 1st Artillery.
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html
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http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

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"LOVE is the essence of all things."
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I do not know why reason Mrs. X continued in a different section, in particular in the post titled THE HENRY DOGS from Online Pedigrees, the conversation that had been made within the post HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER. So I thought right and proper to add here the full communication between Mrs. X and villaliberty, so that readers are not mislead and lose the essence of the content of the full message in general, so after read it fully they can then take their own conclusions since neutrality and as thoroughly as possible, without distractions, without lack of detail, or maneuvers that induce them to confusion...

 

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No sé por qué razón Mrs. X continuó en otro post diferente, concretamente en el post titulado THE HENRY DOGS del Online Pedigrees, la conversación que se venía realizando dentro del post HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER. Por lo tanto he creído justo y adecuado añadir en este lugar la totalidad de esta comunicación entre Mrs. X y villaliberty, para que los lectores no se despisten ni pierdan la esencia del contenido de todo el mensaje en general, para que después puedan sacar sus propias conclusiones desde la neutralidad y con todo el rigor posible, sin despistes, sin falta de detalles, ni maniobras que les induzcan a la confusión…

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 "THE HENRY DOGS" - HISTORY ON ELI/CARVER (Part 2) (pag 1)

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:54 am

 


drfreak92 wrote:

Wow! That was one of the most interesting writing's I've read! Excellent rebuttal. Thank you.

~Mr Mark



Your welcome. I am Glad to hear you. I appreciate and I thank you to tell me it, for to my knowledge.

I have supplemented and updated the written in spanish, to facilitate more information, more reading comfort, more entertainment and better understanding.

I'm still looking for someone brave translator, of spanish to english lol lol.

You can see the write in Web site, I think that is much better than here, because you can see many pictures, colours, etc. etc. You can see the write in the next links:

In English by Internet translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

English web site:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

However, If you want to collaborate with me doing a good or regular translation of my write, because I forget so much my english and right now is not good, please send me the good translation to:
fiapbt@fiapbt.net I will add your translater credit, of course.

You can take the original Spanish version for the translate in:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

THANK YOU in advance.

Mariano Peinado
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http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

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Last edited by villaliberty on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:21 am; edited 4 times in total

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:06 am

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Some people already have called this write, "The writing of the year".
I do not think it's, but it's nice to hear it. Thank you!!!

Mariano Peinado

"Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs."

In English web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

In English by Internet bad translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

In Spanish web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

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Mrs. X
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:35 am

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Interesting.

You mention me sideways, because I'm the one that brought up the Black Jack connection.
I never said directly off those dogs, I said possibly off the Black Jack bred dogs from Al Brown, who had them tighter and better than anyone else.
As for that litter of pups..
Too bad it's not possible to do a parentage DNA.

The ADBA leaves pedigrees as they are unless, they have the DNA, this is one of the reasons it's agreed that Buck has the wrong ABDA pedigree, being listed as off Golden Boy when he's really supposed to be off Little Tater. And is the spitting image of Litter Tater too.

You can believe what you what, I'm going to go with science and known genetics..
Black is a dominant gene. You cannot get black unless a parent is genetically black
There is no recessive black gene in pit bulls. If you breed two dogs in the B series or E series and get black puppies there is a problem because black is the K series.
This is not me speaking on this, this is scientist, geneticists and people that study canine color DNA. Ask one of them.

You speak of lies and half truths. Genetic fact is no such thing.
They have PROVEN the canine genome and color sequence. Prove them wrong with genetic sequences of modern dogs from brown red and tan dogs throwing black puppies, by your writing, it should happen all the time. Prove it through DNA. Your personal speculation and this is so because I say it is so is not going to work on me. Again, because I know genetics.

I don't claim to know everything, I am willing to learn, I am willing to be wrong. But unless it comes from a reputable source in the scientific genetic community that it's possible, I for one am not going to believe it.

And being as these dogs were 50 years ago, it doesn't make that much of a difference my belief, or anyone else's. It is what it is, and regardless of how they may or may not be bred, they're good dogs, and we breed those dogs to this day because they were good dogs, and NOT because they were a certain color.

K


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Mrs. X
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:27 am

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http://rayfox6.tripod.com/id52.html
Interview With Legendary Dogman Floyd Boudreaux
May 11,2007

How well did you know Carver?

Pretty good. I saw a lot of his shows and gave him some dogs, but I never really did much business with him. He was a nice looking man and could tell a story like no other. I remember Maurice and Mr. Jolley, from south Texas, came here one time in 1955 and they were driving a red Thunderbird convertible. You had to push the car to start it and they had a black dog named BUTCH with them. He jumped out of the car and was running to highway and we had to catch him. Maurice told me he started with the dogs in 1946, one year after I fought my first dog. He and his friend Jolley went to Louisiana to fight that WINO dog that was owned by Jolley. After the fight Jolley sold the dog over here and Maurice was so angry with him that he refused to drive back to Texas with Jolley in the same car. Maurice knew a lot of good dog people and he would watch the hot young dogs in somebody's backyard and if you had something he liked he would try and talk you out of it and then start selling them. I saw him fight a few good ones but he never did fight many dogs and a lot of times he would come in overweight. One time he was matched into Mayfield and come in overweight. But Mayfield said he would fight anyway. Carver refused and then sold his dog. That's how he was. Maurice was always trying to make money with the dogs. How else could he survive? He wasn't going to work for a living.

Do you think he misrepresented those papers to keep that a secret?

I'm sure he did to some degree. But in those days it was pretty much common knowledge that he did and everybody that needed to know, knew about it. I did. He bred to my BLIND BILLY dog and that's how he got IRONHEAD, BOOMERANG and others. They came out of my stuff. He always told us that BOOMERANG was out of IRONHEAD. You see Maurice would exaggerate a lot all the time, and he was smart enough to tell you a lie. Don't get me wrong, Maurice was a nice guy, but also a liar. He told me one time that he worked for the Mexican Government, the Border Patrol, and even told my wife he worked for the Foreign Legion. But one thing is for sure, he was a hell of a ladies man and could convince you that black was blue. He sure was a good salesman

Mr. Boudreaux, I want you to tell me the full story on the old ELI dog. How he was bred, his parents, his pups and so on.

I will tell you the true story as it is and I have witnesses that can tell you this is the truth. If this is not right, I'm the brother of Martin Luther King. Today at least 80% of the dogs that are fighting come from ELI. It makes me mad that they got the story on him and his sons BULLYSON and ELI JR., turned around. Not for myself, I know better. I lived it, but the future generation that is coming behind us doesn't know anything about the truth and have to rely on what they are reading. That's why I'm so glad I can do this interview in the TIMES. It takes a small man to lie and change a story. I'm telling the truth about how them dogs are bred just like I was told before.
(Then proceeds to tell nothing about how the dog as bred)

When ELI got stolen, Cotton gave Jr. $1000 and told him to go and buy another dog, and said that if there was another dog he liked that cost more he would make up the difference. There is a lot of stories about what happened after this, when ELI got stolen from Chattanooga. I think he went from Chattanooga to Memphis and from there on, I just don't know for sure, but I feel that some of that bunch in Memphis had something to do with it. I just don't know what happened with ELI but I feel very strong about this, and I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it myself. I truly believe that ELI was also the sire of that GR. CH. ZEBO dog.

They were too much alike not to be true. At one time I gave a nice red puppy to Jerry Clemmons. He is a friend of mine and I still think a lot of the man. He took the pup, kept him for 6 weeks and sold the pup. He came here and I gave him another pup that I had here in the blacksmith shop. I called that pup SPOOK. She was out of a litter that killed each other when they were still very young. He kept her for about 2 months at the most when she came in season for the first time. He brought her back and I bred her to ELI. They had 4 pups, 3 black and 1 brindle. Two males and two females.

http://www.gamedogshistory.com/floydboudreau/

SP Clavelle owned a spotted dog back in them times that Gaboon Trahan used to breed to his pregnant doges. Gaboon used the one time & found him to be an average dog, but very game. Gaboon called the dog Rascal & had permission to breed to him any time, but Gaboon never owned the red & white dog he called Rascal. Floyd bought Rascal from SP Clavelle & Floyd Boudreaux was the only man to ever register Rascal & only did so through the UKC several years after Floyd had him on his yard. Floyd bred Rascal to Lena (Scrub's mama) to produce Rascal Jr. Rascal Jr. was the sire of many good dogs one of which Jerome Hernandez called N!gger. N!gger won 5 times for Jerome & one of them over Scrub. Scrub was matched his first Match at 40lbs. by Floyd Boudreaux & lost this one to N!gger in 40 minutes.

Floyd Boudreaux became known as the breeder of Eli dogs & this is true, but we need to look at the whole picture. Folks, Floyd Boudreaux is the breeder of Blind Billy dogs! The best of the Dibo stuff!! Bullyson was a line bred Blind Billy dog! Floyd Boudreaux owned Blind Billy & Rascal at the same time. Gypsy was a good daughter of Billy & when she came into Heat, Floyd bred her as a repeat breeding back to her sire Blind Billy. Floyd also bred her a week later but this time to Rascal, as Billy was getting old & Floyd wanted pups out of the aging Gypsy. Well, Gypsy had the pups & Ray Charles could see that they were from Billy. Raymond Elias got one of the pups from this mating & named him Pistol.

Pistol was a very good dog that was shown only once. He was matched above his weight & won impressively anyway. I don't know how Maurice was able to breed him, or if he even did at all, but the ADBA pedigrees have him as the grandsire of Art's Missy, Davis' GR.CH. Boomerang & Clayton's Java (the dam of GR.CH. Art). By the way, Don Devine got a bitch from Bennett Clayton named Patty. Don registered her as off Eli Jr. & Java. When Don got the bitch, all Bennett told him was that she was a sister to Art, but Bennett did not say she was a littermate. Patty was indeed of Eli Jr., but her dam was a quarter Staffordshire; a bitch off Indian Bolio & a half Staff bitch!

But I would not mind if my dogs had Patty in their make-up because Patty's dam was a bitch named Ginger. This is the same Ginger was the dam to Stinson's CH. Tuffy & Stinson & Glover's CH. Dolemite. Imagine that. Dolemite's mama a quarter Staff! It must have been some good Staff blood. So, Patty was a half sister to Ironhead. Maurice also said Bullyson was a son of Ironhead & he did that with the man who raised Bullyson sitting in the same room with him. Just ask Jerry Clemmons if I am telling the facts. Anyways folks, no matter what Maurice's papers say, Ironhead was a son of Blind Billy. Perhaps now you will understand why Bullyson crossed so well with Ray Long's two bitches Baby & Tuffy & Art Riley's Missy & why Eli Jr. crossed well with Bennett Clayton's Java & why Ronnie Hyde's Satchmo Bully went so well with his Bloody Sunday. Folks, it's the Blind Billy blood doing what it's done, biting hard & winning.



So who became the registered sire of the litter? There were no multi-sired DNA litters then...
And yes, I forgot Brendy. Now there are TWO mystery colors popping up in the line. Black and brindle both appearing out of nowhere in a buckskin line of dogs.

Boudreaux admitted that Carver pedigrees were suspect..
And we're supposed to take all this in and just dismiss scientific genetic proof on top of that and say the pedigrees are correct, even though there is ample evidence to allow speculation that they may not be so, and in fact, are probably NOT so.

K.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:53 am

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Fair points on both sides.... but scientists didn't breed or show the dogs in question.... and all the science in the world won't ferret out the truth. To use science to cast doubt on one questionable pedigree in order to help validate another QUESTIONABLE pedigree might be fun.... but it won't provide an answer with any basis in verifiable fact in my red neck opinion. I could of-course be wrong... or missing the point. It sure wouldn't be the first time. These men were not saints.... they did what they did for whatever reasons they did them, and left what legacy they had behind. Those of us without first hand knowledge of what was bred and why can only make the best decisions based on the RIGHT now. JMO


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:20 pm

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All the science in the world would ferret out the truth if the dogs were alive today. A simple DNA test would prove definitively. However, without that being available, you use common sense and known scientific facts.
Someone trying to get me to accept a line of dogs that were in their mid 30-40 and buckskin over night turned into 50 lb plus black dogs is just as ridiculous as someone trying to get me to accept that the sun rose in the west and set in the east. Completely against known science of the time..

And think about this.. WHY where there rumors, from even back then, that these dogs were not bred the way the pedigrees said? You don't hear people say ANY dog in that whole pedigree wasn't bred the way the paper says, with ONE exception and that is Eli.
Could it possibly be that even then people saw that SOMETHING was not right???

I would not have said anything, but he and I went back and forth a little bit in another thread and as far as I know, I am one of the only people, or perhaps the first that brought up the Black Jack dogs in conjunction with Eli dogs, so for him to put that in this little history, as well as for him to repeat some of the same things about lies and half truths makes me feel as this was directed towards me.

Now, I don't CARE. 50 years later, it's NOT something that effects any single one of us.
But the FACT remains that SCIENCE and GENETICS say that Eli is impossible, bred the way he was bred.

For him to use some crack pot theory that they're throw backs to some old black dogs waaaaayyy back in the pedigree is ludicrous. Genetics just don't work the way he is trying to claim.
He is also under the delusion that ADBA pedigrees are sacrosanct and no fake pedigree would EVER make it on the holy papers of the ADBA and these SAINTS of the dog game would NEVER falsify paperwork..

At least MY theory that Eli dogs are really Black Jack dogs is based on observation and knowledge of genetics. His is based on I am going to believe what I am told no matter what, and then try to fit the evidence to support my view and completely disregard scientific fact.
It's the adult version of neener neener neener, I don't want to listen, I'm right and you're wrong and you're even MORE wrong for daring to question anything. You should just accept what you're told like I do.

Then to basically say people that question the given pedigree has an agenda?? This is the guy that is so hyped on these dogs his dogs are given names like Villa Liberty's Boudreaux El. WHO has an agenda to promote and protect?

And with the exception of where he pointed out he DOUBLE SIRED a litter, and USED ANOTHER DOG TO BREED A PREGNANT BITCH, I'm not even saying it was done with malice. Few of them would give you the right pedigree on their dogs because then YOU became the direct competition if you could breed their dogs the same way they did.

If it was a Boudreaux dog, it was a Boudreaux dog.. Just like with Carver, and we have NO CLUE how any of his dogs were REALLY bred.. I say the same thing goes for those dogs.

And the long and short of it, it DOESN'T MATTER. Unless you're trying to promote yourself and your dogs. Then you might have a problem with someone questioning 60 year old pedigrees, even if they have scientific genetic fact on their side.

K


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:42 am

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berkley_160 wrote:

Interesting.



Berkley, I'm glad that you've been able to read and understand my written by the Internet translator.

Yes is true, the matter about connection between "BLACK JACK" and Tudor's "DIBO", you spoke about it first in the post, you're right. I did not intend to write anything about this subject and see everything that was created caused by your fault, lol
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html But it is true that I am satisfied with the result, and I'm glad to know what you think that is a interesting work, thanks for letting me know.

The write title: "Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs."

In English web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

In English by Internet bad translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

In Spanish web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

You say you're the first to speak Connection "BLACK JACK" with "DIBO"? It is true that you are the first to do so in this post, but I must clarify the connection of "BLACK JACK" with "DIBO" has ALWAYS existed, is nothing new.
For example the Grandmother of "DIBO" of colour BLACK called Hubbard's "LENA", is descended from TUDOR'S "BLACK JACK", which is three times in its fifth generation, two in the sixth and one more in seventh generation.

About this "interview" Mr. Boudreaux, is more of the same, hypotheses, assumptions and hypotheses. That if I believe, that if I would swear, that if rumors, that if such dog is like another and like is similar already must has to be its father, blah blah blah. The same old story but with different words, that is, more of the same since Carver died in 1979 until nowadays.

Half-truths??? It does not take very intelligent to observe it, jealousy, contradictions, encouragement of leadership in the person and his dogs, etc.

About the interview of Mr. Boudreaux, I think if a breeder says or hints that another breeder is a scammer, because say that he is a liar with his word and honor in the pedigrees of their dogs, but then it turns out that the same breeder that affirm or hints such a thing, he use in his breeding plan the dogs of the breeder that he accuses lightly, then it turn his words against him leaving him in clear evidence that the liar and swindler would be himself.

To give a quick example about this last and that I have now come to the my head could be BOUDREUX '"LUPE", this extraordinary female is a bitch bred by Maurice Carver and is also seven generations of the Maurice Carvers breedings.

BOUDREAUX´ “LUPE”:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=4114

berkley_160 wrote:

You see Maurice would exaggerate a lot all the time, and he was smart enough to tell you a lie. Don't get me wrong, Maurice was a nice guy, but also a liar.



This is a Huge Contradiction

berkley_160 wrote:

Do you think he misrepresented those papers to keep that a secret? I'm sure he did to some degree. But in those days it was pretty much common knowledge that he did and everybody that needed to know



?????? Is more of the same, hypotheses, assumptions and hypotheses. That if I believe, that I'm sure but not completely, that if I would swear, that if rumors...

berkley_160 wrote:

Boudreaux admitted that Carver pedigrees were suspect



(Suspect???? Is or is not, SUSPECT not work in this matter, then the CORRECT thing is be prudent.)

If the words of this interview were certainly words of Mr. Boudreaux, and today Mr. Boudreaux was reaffirmed in them, my personal opinion like breeder of Mr. Boudreaux will change completely.
I can understand the discomfort of a person when the recognition of his work does not dazzle as he would like, but I can not understand his attitude because recognizing Carver, that is together him, shines even more brightly. Even Boudreaux should be thankful to Carver, because many of his dogs met the popularity thanks to the Carvers job. Jealousy?

Within the interview says ... Maurice Carver started with dogs in 1946? And ... Boudreaux began with dogs a year before than Carver? Lol, lol.

Anyway I do not give much credence to that interview, one need only look at its content, its words and the picture that I add in this message to suspect very seriously that on the day of the interview, the interviewer probably drunk too many drinks and those words that are seen in the interview, in reality not correspond with what Mr. Boudreaux said.

It is ALWAYS equal against Carver, looking for his discredit, coming with the same arguments, which are nothing but assumptions, rumors, imaginations and bad intentions you say or you insinuate like if it was the truth, always against him. It is ALWAYS the same and more of the same, this is tired and bored.

I think I'm beginning to understand this issue, what some people in public places are doing to enter discussions unproven hypothesis and speak about it like true in addition to of UNFAIR, they stain the word and honor of the breeders. Acting in this way is to enforce the UNFAIR, to insinuate the DIRT for free, dirt or shit against some breeders insinuate themselves in public places, and that seems to benefit only those who publicly promote and spread, for many not in all cases, discredit the official ADBA pedigree, I think this is the fundamental reason why the insistence of some people always in the same question and in the same direction.

I think if someone has evidence that a dog has a false pedigree, they should report it to the ADBA. In the ADBA WILL INVESTIGATE IT sure and if is true the report, the ADBA will act to resolve the matter. What I think is wrong, is to engage publicly throwing shit to the dogs, its breeders, owners and fans, because that bad attitude of some people splashes negatively to the breed in general.

This is my last post referring to this matter, as I think the only thing I get with this is to promote something that does more harm than benefit. It's over!!!

Whoever wants to know my views on this, can watch it on my public writings, I do not hide anything. I do not want to convince anyone of anything, nor do I want to waste anyone's time in debates that are not sufficiently clear nor clean, debates which I think are unfair, unfounded and with bad intention to third parties (many now deceased) and the own breed.

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER with Pedigree ¿Yes or No?:
www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html

@ THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, A PURE BREED DOG:
http://www.fiapbt.net/purebreeddog.htm

@ APBT OFFICIAL PEDIGREE:
http://www.fiapbt.net/officialpedigree.html

Berkley, when you talk about that in some occasion the ADBA has changed some false pedigree for a true pedigree (I think you do it with the intention of discrediting all pedigrees, I do not know sure), your words give me reason about it, the pedigree and the ADBA are necessary to ensure the truth husbandry way in the breeding dogs and the truth of the own breed. The Official pedigree and the ADBA act to ensure that a pure breed dog American Pit Bull Terrier does not disappear or become extinct among so many thousands and thousands of crosses of mixed dogs, which almost all of them, their owners call this kind of mixed dogs Pit Bull of purebred.

Obviously most of the owners of all those lots of mixed dogs, are against the pedigree, against the ADBA and against those we talk about these issues with the heart, because they do not want to talk about the truth of his mixed dogs and this circumstance, the mixed dogs, is not nothing wrong in all it, it's nothing of what they have to embarrass. The mixed dogs can become even best dogs than the purebred dogs, but the truth is the truth and we can not go against it. Surely many of these mixed dogs are precious and special to do hard works and sports, but each thing at a drawer. Each case should go where it belongs, not serves mix issues to try to confuse the fan, applying the maxim of former U.S. President Harry Truman, when explaining how to do a trick or tactic against citizens to achieve the goal (regardless of the values and ethics of the person to achieve this), saying: " If you can not convince them, confuse them."
To want to convince someone like to want to confuse someone, in my opinion, both are negatives and NO RIGHT.

A couple months ago someone told me that the ADBA pedigrees are aimed at sincerity always seeking the truth within of it, above everything and everyone, NO EXCEPTIONS anything or nobody. This person was H. Greenwood. Chapo!!! Ole and Ole!!!
By this last and many more subjects, spare any kind of explanation to understand the importance that have the ADBA pedigrees in our dogs. ADBA, the International Canine Mother of the American Pit Bull Terrier by own merit.

Berkley you are offending me, according to your arguments you say the most if not all breeders we are liars and swindlers. You offend me by stating that “your science” say, it was not possible puppies born black in my 1998 litter of "RED OKLAHOMA" X "CLYDE". I say you and I affirm to you that this litter is made by myself out and I saw by myself in the moment of born the puppies out of the womb of my dog "RED OKLAHOMA" 10 puppies, which 7 were black puppies.

If you say that "your science" says I'm lying and cheating, when I say what my litter of "RED OKLAHOMA" color Red Nose X "CLYDE" Buckskin color which 10 puppies borned in this litter, 3 Color Buckskin and 7 Color Black, then I say that I do not believe any of "your science", because what I've done with my hands and seen with my own eyes, NO EXIST REAL SCIENCE THAT CAN DENY ME IT. After this, absolutely I not believe anything about "your science".

By the same rule of three, also you affirm that the Reverend Howard Heinzl also was a swindler for the puppies black color obtained from "POLLY" X "ARIZONA PETE" "your science" say that it is impossible... so honest and honorable was this breeder all his life, a gentleman, that is now questioned and unfairly.

Here is something much more important than the dogs quality from Carver, Eli, Boudreaux, Heinzl, The Blacks, etc. and is nothing but the TRUTH. When one does not have complete assurance that what you are saying is true, even with the mere insinuation that something can be false without being, is harmful and even cruel to the person who is accused of cheat and even more if that person is already dead like in the case of Mr. Heinzl, Carver, Tudor, etc.., imagine the pain so great for their family such harmful comments for the honor, ethics and morals of the people dead.

Even for the fans of the dogs from the breeder who is accused of lying or swindler, is also very painful, especially since it is likely that such a vile, petty accusation without evidence, will be more fake than a 150 dollar bill.

However, I see a clear obsession by some people in different places want to subtly discredit the pedigrees, even if it means having to tarnish the image of breeders, especially of the most important breeders in the history of the breed, like are Carver, Heinzl, Boudreaux, Tudor, etc.
I am not the only one who are seing thats, no, also already some people have told me recently in private the same thing that I am seeing and from here and now I tell them, that do not be AFRAID to show their opinion in public, nor Berkley and nobody will eat them by the simply show their opinions, lol.

Berkley, the science I know that is great yes (not yours if not the science of all) and necessary for proper and quick humanity evolution, but sometimes the science is also a liar for not being right, because today it has scientifically proven that many issues yesterday scientifically demonstrated to be true, it turns out that it right now are not and since the rule of three (science of mathematics), it is more than likely that tomorrow will be demonstrated scientifically, many issues today that have been proven scientifically as true, then will neither conformed to the right nor to the truth.

To say, that this writing I've done selflessly with good intention and with my heart in hand, only I show my views and lived experiences within the breed in various facets, with the hope and desire that certain information and some historical pictures will not lost with the passage of time. This writing I have not done with the intention to offend anyone, which I consider a waste of time, lack of respect and lack of inteligence.

berkley_160 wrote:

I'm right and you're wrong and you're even MORE wrong for daring to question anything.



Ok, you're right, you're in the truth and I'm wrong, sorry, will not happen it again, I assure you.

berkley_160 wrote:

and I have already made my mark on history, and I plan on leaving more.



I wish you that you continue doing much more history than you say that already you've done and that all your projects that you say that you have, I wish you ending with great success. Good luck.

Mariano Peinado
P.D. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html

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wellkennels
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:36 pm

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http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=324530 was the dam red or chocolate? pic was sorta blurred...RS

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:01 am

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wellkennels wrote:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=324530 was the dam red or chocolate? pic was sorta blurred...RS



The Dam of "Black Widow" called Red Oklahoma is Red Nose, the colour that you saw in her picture online pedigree is the right colour.

And with that information at least for my part, I will end this matter, if you want to contact with me you can do by email. It's over at least for me!!!

Thank you for your interesting

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:15 pm

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villaliberty wrote:

wellkennels wrote:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=324530 was the dam red or chocolate? pic was sorta blurred...RS



The Dam of "Black Widow" called Red Oklahoma is Red Nose, the colour that you saw in her picture online pedigree is the right colour.

And with that information at least for my part, I will end this matter, if you want to contact with me you can do by email. It's over at least for me!!!

Thank you for your interesting


villa we don't have any further questions to send your email the one we asked was satisfied. Now we aren't sure why you chose to respond to our simple question in such a odd manner, as the pic you have entered of black widows dam is definitely blurred and we only asked you to clarify her coat. some list red/ red nose when they aren't and pictures used on pedigrees reflect different hues due to lighting available. not sure why when someone disagrees or ask questions or a post don't receive all positive atta-boys some are easily offended and become defensive toward others. maybe the insecurity one has in their understanding is reflected by the defensive attitude they respond with instead of responding in a typical informative and polite manner. you are not the first or the last to develop ideas that will be challenged but we would suggest if you can't stand the heat don't go in the kitchen as many famous theories have failed when challenged despite any prior belief or support they may have had about them...good luck
Smile

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:46 pm

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wellkennels wrote:

villaliberty wrote:

wellkennels wrote:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=324530 was the dam red or chocolate? pic was sorta blurred...RS



The Dam of "Black Widow" called Red Oklahoma is Red Nose, the colour that you saw in her picture online pedigree is the right colour.

And with that information at least for my part, I will end this matter, if you want to contact with me you can do by email. It's over at least for me!!!

Thank you for your interesting


villa we don't have any further questions to send your email the one we asked was satisfied. Now we aren't sure why you chose to respond to our simple question in such a odd manner, as the pic you have entered of black widows dam is definitely blurred and we only asked you to clarify her coat. some list red/ red nose when they aren't and pictures used on pedigrees reflect different hues due to lighting available. not sure why when someone disagrees or ask questions or a post don't receive all positive atta-boys some are easily offended and become defensive toward others. maybe the insecurity one has in their understanding is reflected by the defensive attitude they respond with instead of responding in a typical informative and polite manner. you are not the first or the last to develop ideas that will be challenged but we would suggest if you can't stand the heat don't go in the kitchen as many famous theories have failed when challenged despite any prior belief or support they may have had about them...good luck
Smile



Sorry, I think that my bad english can lead to some misinterpretations or misunderstandings. Thanks for telling me it
Smile

This is the Online Pedigree with picture of my "Red Oklahoma" that died in 2013:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=85467

In the next pictures of my "Red Oklahoma" you can see very well the colour Red Nose:

Thank you and take care.

Image

Image



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:42 pm

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That Red Oklahoma dog looks more Chocolate than Red Rednose. Chocolate dogs will produce Black dogs when bred buckskin dogs. The chocolate is a recessive Black color that will revert back to Black when crossed into another colored blacknosed animal.

An example of this would be this breeding. The Sire was Red black nosed and the dame was White with Chocolate patch on her head. The litter produced 7 pups, 6 of which were either Black or Seal with a little white.
One looked like the Sire.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:47 pm

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jboogy wrote:

That Red Oklahoma dog looks more Chocolate than Red Rednose. Chocolate dogs will produce Black dogs when bred buckskin dogs. The chocolate is a recessive Black color that will revert back to Black when crossed into another colored blacknosed animal.



Chocolate and rednose is the same thing. If you breed a rednose to a buckskin dog you can also produce black dogs. Breed a chocolate to a regular rednose you will get rednoses/ chocolate.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:37 pm

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Thank you my friends.
I give you my honor word that in the litter of my female Red Nose called "Red Oklahoma" X "CLYDE" of Buckskin color, black puppies coming in there.

The stud and that litter I've done with my hands and seen with my own eyes, NO EXIST REAL SCIENCE THAT CAN DENY ME IT.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:57 pm

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Villa liberty is a good friend of mine, is a guy who you can trust... and his ped are correct.
believe or not, I thing is not any correct science about color of pups...
Good job master¡¡¡¡¡¡
Un abrazo

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hound
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:29 pm

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very nice read thank u



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:52 pm

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marrero wrote:

Villa liberty is a good friend of mine, is a guy who you can trust... and his ped are correct.
believe or not, I thing is not any correct science about color of pups...
Good job master¡¡¡¡¡¡
Un abrazo



Juan Miguel thank you very much for your testimony, you are great people. I'm not a master of nothing, I'm just a APBT fan like you and the others, but I'm equally grateful to you.
Take care. A hug!

-------

Juan Miguel muchas gracias por tú testimonio, tu sí que eres grande. Yo no soy ningún maestro de nada, solo soy un aficionado más del APBT igual que tú y los demás, pero te lo agradezco igualmente.
Cuídate. Un abrazo!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:16 am

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drfreak92 wrote:

Wow! That was one of the most interesting writing's I've read! Excellent rebuttal. Thank you.

~Mr Mark



Excuse me the delay in translation, in a few days will be completely finished the translations, I have not forgotten about it lol.

The write title: "Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs."

In English web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

In English by Internet bad translation:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fnegro.html&edit-text=

In Spanish web site version:
http://www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:42 am

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hound wrote:

very nice read thank u



Your welcome. I am glad that you liked this job. Thank you for let me know it. Mariano Peinado

(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
Like the promised is debt, then already I translated the report as best I could. Also is updated and more complete.

@ Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

I wish and hope that with this work you will enjoy with it and serve to clear some doubts to you.

THANK YOU!!!

Mariano Peinado
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html

________________
Villa Liberty kennels:
http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”


--------------------------

ESPAÑOL

Como lo prometido es deuda, ya está traducido el reportaje lo mejor que he podido. También está actualizado y más completo.

@ ¿De dónde le viene el color NEGRO a los perros ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX, siendo que todos ellos son de la familia de Tudor´s “DIBO” y este era de color buckskin? - LOS PERROS DE HENRY: www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

Espero y deseo que este trabajo sea de su agrado y sirva para despejar algunas dudas.

¡¡¡GRACIAS!!!

Mariano Peinado
P.D. Para mayor información diversa que puedas necesitar, puedes adquirirla en: FIAPBT FORUM: www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/informacion.html

________________
Villa Liberty kennels: www.villaliberty.org

“En honor a la verdad y lo correcto, creo que no deberíamos cerrar los ojos para permitir que la maldad y la injusticia SE NORMALICEN dentro de la sociedad en la que vivimos.”

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Last edited by villaliberty on Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:20 am; edited 2 times in total

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:46 am

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The sad thing about this thread is everyone thinks because the color is black only Henry had black dogs.

This is simply not true and the proof of ads of pups for sale which were black and can be found clear back to 1900 in Dog Fancier Magazine.
So the claim only one line has black dogs isn't true.
Try checking and reading and quit repeating one or two people.
There are many back then who had them and were for sale.

fancier

BTW if you want to know where the black comes into Eli, read the mother side of the pedigree, there was black dogs in it.....

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:27 pm

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Danger wrote:

The sad thing about this thread is everyone thinks because the color is black only Henry had black dogs.

This is simply not true and the proof of ads of pups for sale which were black and can be found clear back to 1900 in Dog Fancier Magazine.
So the claim only one line has black dogs isn't true.
Try checking and reading and quit repeating one or two people.
There are many back then who had them and were for sale.

fancier

BTW if you want to know where the black comes into Eli, read the mother side of the pedigree, there was black dogs in it.....



http://books.google.com/books?id=26fmAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA19-PA19&lpg=RA19-PA19&dq=ukc+The+Dog+Fancier+magazine&source=bl&ots=4ZuslbEoDh&sig=niAtUi3JelnLhMCYhdQ0-2yGO1U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_PDRU7uDGsqfyAST2YKoBg&ved=0CE0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=ukc%20The%20Dog%20Fancier%20magazine&f=false

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:23 am

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(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
For those who say that ALL dogs of Henry were black color, inform them that they are wrong. This people wrong about the color, if wish it they will can learn about this subject since other reliable sources, and also inside the article that I wrote recently entitled:

@ Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs:
http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

I wish and hope that with this work you will enjoy with it and serve to clear some doubts to you.

THANK YOU!!!

Mariano Peinado
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html

________________
Villa Liberty kennels:
http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”


--------------------------

ESPAÑOL

Para aquellos que dicen que TODOS los perros de Henry eran de color negro, informarles que están equivocados. Pueden informarse de este dato por otras fuentes que sean confiables, y también dentro de mi reportaje titulado:

@ ¿De dónde le viene el color NEGRO a los perros ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX, siendo que todos ellos son de la familia de Tudor´s “DIBO” y este era de color buckskin? - LOS PERROS DE HENRY: www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

Espero y deseo que este trabajo sea de su agrado y sirva para despejar algunas dudas.

¡¡¡GRACIAS!!!

Mariano Peinado
P.D. Para mayor información diversa que puedas necesitar, puedes adquirirla en: FIAPBT FORUM: www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/informacion.html

________________
Villa Liberty kennels: www.villaliberty.org

“En honor a la verdad y lo correcto, creo que no deberíamos cerrar los ojos para permitir que la maldad y la injusticia SE NORMALICEN dentro de la sociedad en la que vivimos.”

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:04 am

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R Gangs kennel did good things in his moment for the breed and one of them was, that R Gangs kennel preserved the genetic or blood at 100% purity of Carver Dogs, very important thing to take note by the excellent and beneficial work did for the breed and his fans, worthy mention about it like a deserved tribute in nowadays.

R Gangs kennel post:
http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=240365

Mariano Peinado
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html
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http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:31 am

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CHRISTMAS, precious moment to remember a nice American Pit Bull Terrier history...

NAVIDADES, precioso momento para recordar una bonita historia del American pit Bull Terrier...

Mariano Peinado

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:54 am

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ADBA = Pit Bull Canine Mother at International scope

(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
In Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153062101016133/?type=1&theater

Image

After the MARATHONPIT hard work... In the picture, left to right:

MISS PATCHES”:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=205818

RED AKER”:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=262006

RED KROM”:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=243608

Pit Bull Pedigree (papers) = ADBA = Pit Bull Canine Mother at International scope = Pedigrees control and not validate false Pedigrees = Excellent and honest ADBA job trying to keep the TRUTH and maintain alive the Official Genealogy of the breed in over the time = Keep alive Officially the Pit Bull defence in various aspects, so that the children of our grandchildren will can continue to enjoy these wonderful animals when the time comes.

@ THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, A PURE BREED DOG:
www.fiapbt.net/purebreeddog.htm

@ APBT OFFICIAL PEDIGREE:
www.fiapbt.net/officialpedigree.html

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER WITH PEDIGREE ¿YES OR NO?:
www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html

In the ADBA, not only competes in Weight Pulling and Conformation events, also are doing ADBA “Top Dog” event:
www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=174&pg=174

Mariano Peinado
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html

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http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”



---------------------------

ESPAÑOL

En Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153062101016133/?type=1&theater

Image

Tras el duro esfuerzo del MARATHONPIT... En la fotografía de izquierda a derecha:

MISS PATCHES”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=205818

RED AKER”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=262006

RED KROM”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=243608

Pedigree (papeles) del Pit Bull = ADBA = Canina Madre en ámbito Internacional del Pit Bull = Control de Pedigrees y no validar falsos Pedigríes = Excelente trabajo y honesto de la ADBA por intentar mantener la VERDAD y mantener viva la Genealogía Oficial de la raza en el transcurso del tiempo = Mantener Oficialmente viva la defensa del Pit Bull en diversos aspectos, para que los hijos de nuestros nietos puedan seguir disfrutando de estos maravillosos animalitos llegado el momento.

@ EL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, UNA PURA RAZA CANINA: www.fiapbt.net/razacanina.html

@ PEDIGREE OFICIAL: www.fiapbt.net/4.html

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER CON PEDIGREE ¿SI O NO?: www.fiapbt.net/pedigreesi.html

En la ADBA, no solo se compite en eventos de Arrastre de Peso y Conformación, también se realizan eventos ADBA “Top Dog”: www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=174&pg=174

Mariano Peinado
P.D. Para mayor información diversa que puedas necesitar, puedes adquirirla en: FIAPBT FORUM: www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/informacion.html

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:17 pm

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ARE POSSIBLE GENES REDNOSE IN BLACK DOG LIKE MIDNIGHT COWBOY? - ¿SON POSIBLE GENES RED NOSE EN UN APBT NEGRO COMO MIDNIGHT COWBOY?

Poll -
Encuesta: http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=249635

CARVER'S (DAVIS) “MIDNIGHT COWBOY
http://www.villaliberty.org/midnightcowboy..html (English versión)
http://www.villaliberty.org/midnightcowboy.html (Versión en Español)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:21 am

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MAURICE CARVER T-R-I-B-U-T-E in Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153152730586133/?type=1&theater - www.fiapbt.net/carvertribute.htm

H-O-M-E-N-A-J-E A MAURICE CARVER en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153152730586133/?type=1&theater - www.fiapbt.net/carvertribute.htm



Maurice Carver to the right of the picture in his heyday, with his wife Pat Carver and his good friend Jim Rorex.

Maurice Carver a la derecha de la fotografía en sus buenos tiempos, junto con su esposa Pat Carver y su buen amigo Jim Rorex.


Mariano Peinado – FIAPBT – IADCRO
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P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:08 am

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(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
MAURICE CARVER VISIT TO HIS FRIENDS FROM MEXICO IN THE 60S. Special mention to Enrique Morfin and Ramiro Morales.



Picture 1: Luis García, Maurice Carver and Ramiro Morales

Picture 2: Enrique Morfin, Ray Long and Maurice Carver in Monterrey in the 60s.

Picture 3: In this rare picture, we can observe in the left part to Pat and Maurice Carver, visiting to his very good Mexican friends; Jesus Araiza, Ramiro Morales, Gustavo Araiza, Miguel Hinojosa handling to “HERCULES”, etc. “HERCULES” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=22670

Picture 4: Enrique Morfin and Ramiro Morales.

Picture 5: CARVER´S (R. MORALES) "NEGRA" (BOUDREAUX' LUPE)
CARVER´S (R. MORALES) "NEGRA" was well known in Mexico like “La Negra Grande” and in the USA like BOUDREAUX “LUPE”.
* "NEGRA" FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=4114
* "NEGRA" Online Pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=4114

* Unpublished pictures of father and grandparents of Carver's "Red Lady" and that never before were seen publicly. Carver's "Red Lady" was the dog female of Mr. Enrique Morfin (DEP) and one of the most important matriarchs of the breed dog American Pit Bull Terrier who has had Mexico:
http://www.villaliberty.org/TomRobinson.html

Dear friends, now ended my account in Online Pedigree, until I come back again to this place, I tell you good bye and wishing to all much good luck.


Mariano Peinado – FIAPBT – IADCRO
Spanish professional military of the earth Army between 1981 and 1985, with the graduation of Cape 1st Artillery.
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html
________________
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http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”

"LOVE is the essence of all things."
http://www.fiapbt.net/2013..html

------------------------

ESPAÑOL

MAURICE CARVER VISITA A SUS AMIGOS DE MEXICO EN LOS AÑOS 60. Especial mención a Enrique Morfin y Ramiro Morales.

Foto 1: Luis García, Maurice Carver y Ramiro Morales.

Foto 2: Enrique Morfin, Ray Long y Maurice Carver en Monterrey por la década de los años 60.

Foto 3: En esta rara fotografía, podemos observar en la parte izquierda a Pat y Maurice Carver, visitando a sus muy buenos amigos Mexicanos; Jesús Araiza, Ramiro Morales, Gustavo Araiza, Miguel Hinojosa manejando a “HÉRCULES”, etc. FIAPBT Pedigree Online de “HÉRCULES”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=22670

Foto 4: Enrique Morfin y Ramiro Morales.

Foto 5: CARVER´S (R. MORALES) "NEGRA" (BOUDREAUX' LUPE)
CARVER´S (R. MORALES) "NEGRA" fue muy conocida en México como “La Negra Grande” y en USA como BOUDREAUX´ “LUPE”.
* FIAPBT Pedigree Online de "NEGRA": http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=4114
* Online Pedigree de "NEGRA": http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=4114

* Fotografías inéditas del padre y abuelos de Carver´s “Red Lady” y que nunca antes fueron vistas públicamente. Carver´s “Red Lady” fue la perrita de Don Enrique Morfin (D.E.P.) y una de las matriarcas más importantes de la raza canina American Pit Bull Terrier que ha tenido México: http://www.villaliberty.org/Tom.htm

Estimado amigos, en breve finaliza el plazo de mi cuenta en Online Pedigree, hasta mi vuelta de nuevo a este lugar me despido de todos ustedes con un cordial saludo y deseándoles mucha buena suerte para todos.


Mariano Peinado - FIAPBT - IADCRO
Militar profesional español del ejército de tierra entre los años 1981 y 1985, con la graduación de Cabo 1º de Artillería.
PD. Para mayor información diversa que puedas necesitar, puedes adquirirla en, FIAPBT FORUM: www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall
________________
Villa Liberty kennels: www.villaliberty.org

“En honor a la verdad y lo correcto, creo que no deberíamos cerrar los ojos para permitir que la maldad y la injusticia SE NORMALICEN dentro de la sociedad en la que vivimos.”

"El AMOR es la esencia de todas las cosas." http://www.fiapbt.net/2013.html

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:08 am

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(En ESPAÑOL debajo)

Image

In the picture center Ramiro Morales and Maurice Carver.

Image

(CARVER´S) R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” (NEGRITA)
R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” was well known in Mexico like “La Negra Chica” or “La Negra Pequeña”.
“BLACK LADY” in this picture it was showed at a very advanced age.
* “BLACK LADY” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326725
* “BLACK LADY” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this database.)

Image

Ramiro Morales and Mariano Peinado exchanging views about the American Pit Bull Terrier in Villa Liberty kennels, Madrid, Spain.


ESPAÑOL

Image

En el centro de la fotografía Ramiro Morales y Maurice Carver.

Image

(CARVER´S) R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” (NEGRITA)
R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” fue muy conocida en México como “La Negra Chica” o “La Negra Pequeña”. “BLACK LADY” en esta fotografía se mostraba en una edad muy avanzada.
* FIAPBT Pedigree Online de “BLACK LADY”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=326725
* Online Pedigree de “BLACK LADY”: (No existe en esta base de datos.)

Image

Ramiro Morales y Mariano Peinado intercambiando opiniones del American Pit Bull Terrier en Villa Liberty kennels, Madrid, España.

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villaliberty
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:47 am

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monkey wrote:

Thanks for posting the nice pics. I really enjoy seeing the old timers. And there dogs. Good stuff...thanks AND PEACE!!!



Your welcome, it is nothing. I am glad that you liked this historical information about the American Pit Bull Terrier. Thank you very much for your kind words.

Right now of today will end my account in this place, but before I wish to add here some pictures for your enjoy. Some of this pics never before that now was publicated in none place. I hope that you like it and I suggest you if you liked all this, that you save and keep this information in a safe place for your private collection about the American Pit Bull Terrier, you never know what could happen tomorrow and all this could disappear at any time, lol:

1) MAURICE CARVER and DON DIVINE, two great old timers.
Image

MAURICE CARVER:
https://www.facebook.com/271421886132/photos/a.451449941132.245086.271421886132/10153152730586133/?type=1&theater


2) LONG´S (CARVER) “TUFFY”.
Image

“TUFFY” was a very good reproducer and full sister of CARVER´S "BANDIDO", HUNTER´S "RED BUCK" and LONG´S (CARVER'S) BABY the MIDNIGHT COWBOY mother and many more.

- LONG´S (CARVER) “TUFFY” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=403

- LONG´S (CARVER) “TUFFY” Online Pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=403


3) CARVER´S (R. MORALES) “ROJO”.
Image

“ROJO” was an extraordinary dog forgotten over the years, like many more.

- CARVER´S (R. MORALES) “ROJO” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326726

- CARVER´S (R. MORALES) “ROJO” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this database.)


4) CARVER´S “BANDIDO”.
Image

CARVER´S "BANDIDO" was the full brother of HUNTER´S "RED BUCK", LONG´S "BABY" AND LONG´S "TUFFY". History live of the breed!!!

- CARVER´S “BANDIDO” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326723

- CARVER´S “BANDIDO” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this database.)


5) CARVER´S “SANDRA”.
Image

- CARVER´S “SANDRA” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=22647

- CARVER´S “SANDRA” Online Pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=22647


6) (KLAUS & CARVER) R. MORALES´ “CLARENCE”.
Image

"CLARENCE”, the half brother of CARVER´S (INDIAN) "BOLIO", was a valuable koehlers gift to RAMIRO MORALES.

- (KLAUS & CARVER) R. MORALES´ “CLARENCE” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326724

- (KLAUS & CARVER) R. MORALES´ “CLARENCE” Online Pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=26885


7) CARVER´S “EL LOCO”.
Image

CARVER´S “EL LOCO”, was the PATRICK´S “TOMBSTONE” full brother. CARVER´S “EL LOCO” was a Carver´s gift to Ramiro Morales. “EL LOCO” was other more extraordinary dog forgotten over the years.


- CARVER´S “EL LOCO” FIAPBT Pedigree Online:
http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326790

- CARVER´S “EL LOCO” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this database.)


I wish give thanks to my friends Dwight Stubbs (R.I.P.), Ramiro Morales, Jason Robinson and many more great old timers and Pit Bull lovers all them, which they was given to me hundreds of valuable old and historic pictures, information, etc. for to preserve it and add it to my Pit Bull reports, articles, etc. I think it is PATRIMONY and HERITAGE of our noble and marvelous breed dog, the American Pit Bull Terrier. THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO ALL!!!


Mariano Peinado – FIAPBT – IADCRO
Spanish professional military of the earth Army between 1981 and 1985, with the graduation of Cape 1st Artillery.
P.S. For more diverse information that you need, you can acquire in: FIAPBT FORUM:
www.facebook.com/pages/FEDERACION-INTERNACIONAL-DEL-AMERICAN-PIT-BULL-TERRIER/271421886132?sk=wall -- www.fiapbt.net -- www.villaliberty.org/information.html
________________
Villa Liberty kennels:
http://www.villaliberty.org/ingles1.html - www.villaliberty.org

“In honour to the truth and the right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in which we live.”

"LOVE is the essence of all things."
http://www.fiapbt.net/2013..html

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(En ESPAÑOL debajo)

The American Pit Bull Terrier Online Pedigree is a study or informative mode, it is not the Official Pedigree.    Caution with the swindlers!!!

  F    I    A    P    B    T

         FIAPBT http://www.fiapbt.net/index_archivos/image004.gif FIAPBT

 

WORKS THAT MAY BE WOULD BE OF YOUR INTEREST ABOUT THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER

 

@ MAURICE CARVER TRIBUTE and also in Facebook

 

@ FIAPBT POLL: IS POSSIBLE THAT IN A BLACK PIT BULL LIKE MIDNIGHT COWBOY CAN HAVE GENES RED NOSE? and also in Facebook

 

@ MAURICE CARVER VISIT TO HIS FRIENDS FROM MEXICO IN THE 60S: www.fiapbt.net/carverinmexico.html

 

@ THE PIT BULL READ 2014: http://www.fiapbt.net/thereadoftheyear.htm

 

@ GENETIC OF THE LEGEND TO CALLED “MAURICE CARVER” AND TRIBUTE: www.villaliberty.org/legend.html

 

@ TRIBUTE TO MAURICE CARVER IN VIDEO: www.youtube.com/watch?hl=es&gl=ES&v=M4DnGJAMZDw

 

@ MAURICE CARVER MUSEUM: www.fiapbt.net/museumcarver.html

 

@ BLOODLINES? THE “OLD FAMILY RED NOSE(OFRN): www.fiapbt.net/ingles17.html    

 

@ DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER AND ITS DERIVATIONS TODAY, THE AST AND THE SBT: www.fiapbt.net/ingles16.html

 

@ THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER ORIGINS: www.fiapbt.net/origins.html  

 

@ THE CHARACTER OF THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER: www.fiapbt.net/character.html

 

@ GENETIC AND GRAPH STUDY OF THE BESTS APBT OF ALL THE TIMES: http://www.facebook.com/notes/federacion-internacional-del-american-pit-bull-terrier/genetic-and-graph-study-of-the-bests-pit-bull-of-all-the-times/10150424806175089

 

@ WHAT NOBODY HAS WRITED ABOUT THE BEST APBT OF ALL TIMES, TUDOR´S “DIBO”The true history about Tudor´s “Dibo”:   http://translate.google.es/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiapbt.net%2Fhistoriadibo.html&act=url (This is a literal translation by the Internet translator, sorry)

(Original report in Spanish: www.fiapbt.net/historiadibo.html ) 

 

@ “THE BLACKS” HISTORY: www.villaliberty.org/theblacks.html

 

@ THE BLACKSVIDEO: www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=afVsbawKASA  

 

@ Whence comes the BLACK color to ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they all are Tudor's "DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin color? - The HENRY´s Dogs: http://www.fiapbt.net/black.html

 

@  VIDEO. THE ELI DOGS FUNDATION, BOUDREAUX' ELI - THE LEGEND: http://youtu.be/rwICO0MPc78

@ CARVER'S  (DAVIS) MIDNIGHT COWBOY: http://www.villaliberty.org/midnightcowboy..html

 

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER with Pedigree ¿Yes or No?: www.fiapbt.net/pedigreeyes.html

@ THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, A PURE BREED DOG: http://www.fiapbt.net/purebreeddog.htm

 

@ APBT OFFICIAL PEDIGREE: http://www.fiapbt.net/officialpedigree.html  

 

@ THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER BEGINNINGS IN THE CINEMA: http://www.fiapbt.net/pitbullcine2.html 

 

@ MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER: www.villaliberty.org/information.html

 

 

ESPAÑOL

 

 

El Pedigree Online del American Pit Bull Terrier es a modo de estudio o informativo, no es el Pedigree Oficial. ¡¡¡Precaución con los estafadores!!!

   F    I    A    P    B    T  

           FIAPBT http://www.fiapbt.net/index_archivos/image004.gif FIAPBT

SECCION DE REGISTRO GENEALOGICO DE SEGURIDAD DE LA FIAPBT  

http://www.inoxnet.com/madeirapit/images/grs%20logo01.jpg     Banner FIAPBT PEDIGREE 

                                         FIAPBT Pedigree  www.fiapbtpedigree.com

TRABAJOS QUE PUDIERAN SER DE SU INTERES ACERCA DEL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER

@ HOMENAJE A MAURICE CARVER y también en Facebook

@ FIAPBT ENCUESTA: ¿ES POSIBLE QUE UN PIT BULL NEGRO COMO MIDNIGHT COWBOY PUEDA TENER GENES RED NOSE? y también en Facebook

@ MAURICE CARVER VISITA A SUS AMIGOS DE MEXICO EN LOS AÑOS 60: www.fiapbt.net/carverinmexico.html

 

@ EL ESCRITO DEL PIT BULL 2014: http://www.fiapbt.net/thereadoftheyear.htm

 

@ HISTORIA deLOS NEGROS  www.villaliberty.org/losnegros.html

@ VIDEO de LOS NEGROS”:  www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=afVsbawKASA

@ CARVER'S  (DAVIS) “MIDNIGHT COWBOY: www.villaliberty.org/midnightcowboy.html  

@ ¿De dónde le viene el color NEGRO a los perros ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX, siendo que todos ellos son de la familia de Tudor´s “DIBO” y este era de color buckskin? - LOS PERROS DE HENRY: www.fiapbt.net/negro.html

@  VIDEO. LA FUNDACION DE LOS PERROS “ELI”, BOUDREAUX' ELI - THE LEGEND: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwICO0MPc78&feature=youtu.be

@ HOMENAJE A MAURICE CARVER EN VIDEO: www.youtube.com/watch?hl=es&gl=ES&v=M4DnGJAMZDw

@ GENETICA DE LA LEYENDA LLAMADA “MAURICE CARVER” Y HOMENAJE:  www.villaliberty.org/laleyenda.html 

@ MUSEO DE MAURICE CARVER: www.fiapbt.net/museumcarver.html

@ LO QUE NADIE A ESCRITO AUN ACERCA DEL MEJOR APBT DE TODOS LOS TIEMPOS. La verdadera historia de TUDOR´S “DIBO”: www.fiapbt.net/historiadibo.html 

@ ¿LINEAS DE SANGRE? LOS “OLD FAMILY RED NOSE(OFRN): www.fiapbt.net/lineassangre.html

@ DIFERENCIAS ENTRE EL APBT Y SUS DOS DERIVACIONES DE HOY EN DIA, EL AST Y EL SBT: www.fiapbt.net/diferencias.html

@ ORIGENES DEL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER: www.fiapbt.net/origenes.html

@ EL CARACTER DEL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER: www.fiapbt.net/caracter.html

@ ESTUDIO GENETICO Y GRAFICO DE LOS MEJORES PIT BULL DE TODOS LOS TIEMPOS: www.facebook.com/notes/federacion-internacional-del-american-pit-bull-terrier/estudio-genetico-y-grafico-de-los-mejores-pit-bull-de-todos-los-tiempos/10150424284565089

@ AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER CON PEDIGREE ¿SI O NO?: www.fiapbt.net/pedigreesi.html

@ EL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, UNA PURA RAZA CANINA:  www.fiapbt.net/razacanina.html

@ PEDIGREE OFICIAL: www.fiapbt.net/4.html

@ LOS COMIENZOS DEL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER EN EL CINE: www.fiapbt.net/pitbullcine.html

@ INFORMACION DIVERSA DEL AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER: www.villaliberty.org/informacion.html