@ Whence comes the black color to the ELI / CARVER /
BOUDREAUX dogs, being that they are all Tudor's
"DIBO" family and "DIBO" was buckskin
color? - THE HENRY DOGS: www.fiapbt.net/black.html
@ ¿De dónde le viene el color NEGRO a los perros ELI / CARVER / BOUDREAUX, siendoquetodosellos
son de la familia de Tudor´s
“DIBO” y este era de color
buckskin? - LOS PERROS DE HENRY: www.fiapbt.net/negro.html
FOTOGRAFÍA - De izquierda a derecha; Giroux, Carver,
BertClouse
y Tom Robinson en 1968 en el criadero (yarda) de Maurice Carver, disfrutando de los perros de Carver y de su barbacoa. Detrás de
estos perreros (dogmen), podemos
apreciar algunas perreras donde vivieron algunos de los
mejores APBT de toda la historia de la raza.
PICTURE - Left to Right; Giroux,
Carver, Bert Clouse and Tom Robinson in 1968 in the Maurice Carver yard, enjoying the
Carver´s dogs and a his barbecue. Behind these dogmen, we can appreciate some
kennels where some the best APBT of the breed history
lived.
Good job Villa Liberty! We would
NOT have near as good of dogs today if it wasn't for
Carver and Tudor. I was just telling my partner the other
day how Carver got Black Widow from Tudor, then some
years later used Studs like Bullyson
and Iron Head and built the greatest yard of dogs the
breed has ever known.
Dibo's greatness was realized
and maximized by Tudor. That was the first step in the
development of the modern Bulldog, but it was Carver's
genius with Black Widow, Bullyson
and Iron Head that took the breed forward to what
happened in the 70's with dogs like Honeybunch. And
Carver got that greatness into the hands of people who
could develope it further after
he died.
The best breeders of the 80's and 90's continued the
process, but Carver played a crucial roll.
Without him there is no way we would have near as good of
dogs today as we do. With Carver you never knew exactly
how the dog you got off him was bred, you only knew that
it was bred by the most gifted breeder of box dogs in the
world. He'dsellyouthe cake, butnottherecipe.
Last edited by Hank2 on Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:46 pm; edited
1 time in total
villaliberty Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:55 am
Hank2 wrote:
Good
job Villa Liberty! We would NOT have near as good of
dogs today if it wasn't for Carver and Tudor. I was
just telling my partner the other day how Carver got
Black Widow from Tudor, then some years later used
Studs like Bullyson and Iron
Head and built the greatest yard of dogs the breed has
ever known.
Thank you my friend, I enjoy so much with all around the
American Pit Bull Terrier.
I am agree in your words about Carver and Tudor, but we
must not forget the work of Howard Heinzl,
Colby, Corvino and others good
and honest old timers.
Hank2 wrote:
With
Carver you never knew exactly how the dog you got off
him was bred, you only knew that it was bred by the
most gifted breeder of box dogs in the world. He'd sell
you the cake, but not the recipy.
Here I am not agree with you, lol. When Carver or others breeders
of other times, sold some of their dogs without pedigree
because they had some suspicion with the buyer, as it
could make them the competitive in the future and Carver
and others breeders not wanted to facilitate their
knowledge to certain people of his many years of breeding
experience, which they not inspired the confidence
necessary to deliver the pedigree since which they could
acquire the breeding knowledge. Then is possible that
Carver and others breeders in some cases and in similars situations, it might be that
not tell the truth to the buyer how the animal was bred,
hence the saying that some breeders did not want some
people have their secret recipe of how they had been bred
their dogs.
Conversely, when Carver and others breeders they gave the
puppy with pedigree, this was completely different,
because in the pedigree was impregnated for ALWAYS the
word and honor of the breeder, like this subject had been
all the life, this was sacred for the good and honest
breeders.
“In honour to the truth and the
right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil
and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in
which we live.”
Hank2 Newbie
Joined: Dec 08, 2014
Posts: 20
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:47 pm
Thank you Mariano! I have
watched your web site and studied your dogs for many
years. You are a great asset to this breed. Also all the
pictures that you have collected and added to the pedigrees
here have really helped me learn.
I would really like to hear more about what you know and
have heard about Mr. Carver and the important dogs from
him as well as the important dogs he used for breeding.
Your experience and knowledge of these dogs is very extesive I know.
Sincerely, Hank
Last edited by Hank2 on Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:48 pm; edited
1 time in total
Hank2 Newbie
Joined: Dec 08, 2014
Posts: 20
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:39 pm
Villa Liberty wrote, "we
must not forget the work of Howard Heinzl,
Colby, Corvino and others good
and honest old timers."
If you study the pedigrees of Dibo,
Black Widow and some of the best dogs Carver produced you
can see that Joe Corvino and
Howard Hienzel played key roles
in breeding thier ancestors.
The way I look at it Howard Hienzel
got his best dogs from top Corvino
stock. And from that Dibo came
about. Tudor found Dibo on Hienzel's yard, realized his
greatness and maximized his breeding potential as a Stud.
Then Carver in turn saw Black Widow on Tudor's yard, aquired her from Tudor and built his
yard off the pups he got from her.
So in essence, Corvino bred
some amazing dogs then Heinzel
improved upon the ones he got and Dibo
came from that. Then Tudor got Dibo
and improved upon him by producing Black Widow. Finally,
Carver got Black Widow and improved on her by adding Bullyson. He also mixed Blind Billy
with his Black Widow stuff to get Iron Head.
So I see the modern development of the breed as a three
step process:
#1 Dibo is born and Tudor
realizes and maximizes his potential as a Stud.
#2 Tudor produces Black Widow, Carver realizes her
potential, buys her and maximizes the breeding potential
of the pups he got off her before Tudor steals her back.
#3 Carver aquiresBullyson and maximizes him as a Stud
as well as other top dogs breeding that into his best
Black Widow stuff. While he is doing this he sells many
great dogs to several great breeders who carry it on
after he dies.
A final point is that it was Mr
Floyd Boudreaux who was behind the production of Bullyson and his Blind Billy dog was
Iron Head's grand Sire. Without Mr
Boudreaux, Carver would never have had those two great
Studs to add the final ingredient
villaliberty Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:12 am
Hank2 wrote:
Thank
you Mariano! I have watched your web site and studied
your dogs for many years. You are a great asset to this
breed. Also all the pictures that you have collected
and added to the pedigrees here have really helped me
learn.
I would really like to hear more about what you know
and have heard about Mr. Carver and the important dogs
from him as well as the important dogs he used for
breeding. Your experience and knowledge of these dogs
is very extesive I know.
Sincerely, Hank
Thank you very much my friend for your kind words.
Villa
Liberty wrote, "we must not forget the work of
Howard Heinzl, Colby, Corvino and others good and honest
old timers."
If you study the pedigrees of Dibo,
Black Widow and some of the best dogs Carver produced
you can see that Joe Corvino
and Howard Hienzel played key
roles in breeding thier
ancestors. The way I look at it Howard Hienzel got his best dogs from top Corvino stock. And from that Dibo came about. Tudor found Dibo on Hienzel's
yard, realized his greatness and maximized his breeding
potential as a Stud. Then Carver in turn saw Black
Widow on Tudor's yard, aquired
her from Tudor and built his yard off the pups he got
from her.
So in essence, Corvino bred
some amazing dogs then Heinzel
improved upon the ones he got and Dibo
came from that. Then Tudor got Dibo
and improved upon him by producing Black Widow.
Finally, Carver got Black Widow and improved on her by
adding Bullyson. He also
mixed Blind Billy with his Black Widow stuff to get
Iron Head.
So I see the modern development of the breed as a three
step process:
#1 Dibo is born and Tudor
realizes and maximizes his potential as a Stud.
#2 Tudor produces Black Widow, Carver realizes her
potential, buys her and maximizes the breeding
potential of the pups he got off her before Tudor
steals her back.
#3 Carver aquiresBullyson and maximizes him as a
Stud as well as other top dogs breeding that into his
best Black Widow stuff. While he is doing this he sells
many great dogs to several great breeders who carry it
on after he dies.
A final point is that it was Mr
Floyd Boudreaux who was behind the production of Bullyson and his Blind Billy dog
was Iron Head's grand Sire. Without Mr
Boudreaux, Carver would never have had those two great
Studs to add the final ingredient
In my opinion on one hand you're right,
these issues are the breeding role and also happens like
in the life itself.
The DIBO breeder was not Heinzl,
was W.D. Smith. Smith even not being the owner of BOUNCE and
BAMBI, yes it was he who DECIDED to cross them and
that DIBO and its littermates came to this world:
A
final point is that it was Mr
Floyd Boudreaux who was behind the production of Bullyson and his Blind Billy dog
was Iron Head's grand Sire. Without Mr
Boudreaux, Carver would never have had those two great
Studs to add the final ingredient
Well, you are right my friend, it is the same that if we
tell that W.D. SMITH is who was behind the production of
DIBO and its litters brothers; ARIZONA PETE, LIL, JERRY,
etc. because was SMITH the breeder of this great animals.
In the same way we can tell that W.D. SMITH is who was
behind the production of all Boudreaux dogs and many
others breeders. In the same way also we can tell the
same thing about Charles Lloyd, Henry, Con Feeley, Richmond, Delihant,
Farmer, etc.
Earl Tudor and Howard Heinzl
was inside the Pit Bull many years before that W.D. SMITH
and in the same way that Carver with respect
Boudreaux. But this is not a competition of who is better
or worse breeder, of course not, because if so we would
be acting pretty childish, lol.
These issues are the breeding role and also happens like
in the life itself. In my opinion Floyd Boudreaux was and
is one of the best American Pit Bull Terrier breeders of
all times, me and all the fans we must to give thanks to
him, here is my Boudreaux dog (100% Boudreaux and
87´5% Carver) and I am very happy and proud with him
and its descendents:
But really was Jerry Clemmons who was behind the
production of Bullyson, because
if Bullyson came to this world
was thanks to the Jerry Clemmons DECISION and not
for the Boudreaux decision.
By other way, if Blind Billy was the Iron Head's grand
sire, was thanks to the brilliant Carver´s DECISION
to breed his great female “Blondy”
with Blind Billy.
The brilliance who performed Carver in his breedings with Tudor's Dibo, Blind Billy, Bullyson, etc., this could be
realized thanks to the Carver decision and the
dogs that came from these crosses were the product of
Carver to 100% for both the good and for bad.
For to put a example of this
last, to say that “BULLYSON” had 69% of the genetics of
TUDOR´S “DIBO” was also a 100% Boudreaux dog that is
clear and nobody doubts it, but I must report and clarify
for avoid misunderstandings and to talk with the subject
property, that when “BULLYSON” was breeding in the
Maurice Carver yard, all its children borned
there on the Carver decision like a
breeder, it was to be passed from the moment of birth to
be 100% Carver dogs, though its ancestors came from
other different gene, blood or ramifications genetic not
from Carver, thats is not
important, because if these dogs came to life in this
world was thanks to the Carver decision taken
by his way and it is so not for my opinion no, it is
so because that is what set fees for breeding and
genetics, not only with the American Pit Bull
Terrier, also occurs in all others breeds of dogs,
horses, bulls, birds, etc. Therefore all the merits and
all the failures that may have all the dogs bred in the
Maurice Carver yard, were exclusively of him. The sad
thing is that when the things go well to someone, because
to get it he worked and worked hard, often there are
others who like to be awarded the merits of others and
this is not correct, being the time which puts everyone in
the place it deserves. I think it just and convenient to
move correctly and in honor to the truth, to expose
publicly the merits that were buried or robbed to Maurice
Carver. This last I do not tell for you my friend, you
are right man.
Here with my "Mr. Ronnie" dog (100%
Carver - "SATCH" x "BLOODY SUNDAY")
you have a excellent example in
a Dibo, Blind Billy, Ironhead and Bullyson
dog combination in nowadays:
“In honour to the truth and the
right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil
and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in
which we live.”
villaliberty Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:45 am
(EnESPAÑOLdebajo)
MAURICE CARVER VISIT TO HIS
FRIENDS FROM MEXICO IN THE 60S. Special mention to Enrique Morfin
and Ramiro Morales.
Picture 1: Luis García,
Maurice Carver and Ramiro Morales
Picture 2: Enrique Morfin,
Ray Long and Maurice Carver in Monterrey in the 60s.
Picture 3: In this rare picture, we can observe in
the left part to Pat and Maurice Carver, visiting to his
very good Mexican friends; Jesus Araiza, Ramiro Morales,
Gustavo Araiza, Miguel Hinojosa handling to “HERCULES”,
etc. “HERCULES” FIAPBT Pedigree Online: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=22670
* Unpublished pictures of father and grandparents of Carver's
"Red Lady" and that never before were seen
publicly. Carver's "Red Lady" was the
dog female of Mr. Enrique Morfin
(DEP) and one of the most important matriarchs of the
breed dog American Pit Bull Terrier who has had Mexico: http://www.villaliberty.org/TomRobinson.html
Dear friends, now ended my account in Online Pedigree, until
I come back again to this place, I tell you good bye and
wishing to all much good luck.
“In honour to the truth and the
right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil
and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in
which we live.”
MAURICE CARVER VISITA A SUS
AMIGOS DE MEXICO EN LOS AÑOS 60.Especial mención a Enrique Morfin
y Ramiro Morales.
Foto 1: Luis García, Maurice Carver
y Ramiro Morales.
Foto 2: Enrique Morfin, Ray Long y Maurice Carver en Monterrey por la década de
los años 60.
Foto 3: En esta rara fotografía, podemos observar
en la parte izquierda a Pat y Maurice Carver,
visitando a sus muy buenos amigos Mexicanos; Jesús
Araiza, Ramiro Morales, Gustavo Araiza, Miguel Hinojosa
manejando a “HÉRCULES”, etc. FIAPBT Pedigree Online de “HÉRCULES”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=22670
* Fotografías inéditas del padre y abuelos de Carver´s “Red Lady” y
que nunca antes fueron vistas públicamente. Carver´s “Red Lady” fue
la perrita de Don Enrique Morfin
y una de las matriarcas más importantes de la raza
canina American Pit Bull
Terrier que ha tenido México: http://www.villaliberty.org/Tom.htm
Estimados amigos, en breve finaliza el plazo de mi cuenta
en Online Pedigree, hasta mi
vuelta de nuevo a este lugar me despido de todos ustedes
con un cordial saludo y deseándoles mucha buena suerte
para todos.
“En honor a la verdad y lo correcto, creo que no
deberíamos cerrar los ojos para permitir que la maldad y
la injusticia SE NORMALICEN dentro de la sociedad
en la que vivimos.”
Last edited by villaliberty on
Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total
villaliberty Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:51 am
(En ESPAÑOL debajo)
In thepicture
center Ramiro Morales and Maurice Carver.
(CARVER´S) R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” (NEGRITA)
R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” waswellknown in
Mexicolike
“La Negra Chica” or “La Negra
Pequeña”. “BLACK LADY” in this picture it
was showed at a very advanced age.
* “BLACK LADY” FIAPBT Pedigree Online: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=en&criterio=326725
* “BLACK LADY” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this
database.)
Ramiro Morales and Mariano Peinado
exchanging views about the American Pit Bull Terrier in
Villa Liberty kennels, Madrid, Spain.
ESPAÑOL
En el centro de la fotografía Ramiro Morales y Maurice Carver.
(CARVER´S) R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” (NEGRITA)
R. MORALES´ “BLACK LADY” fue muy conocida en México como
“La Negra Chica” o “La Negra Pequeña”. “BLACK LADY” en
esta fotografía se mostraba en una edad muy avanzada.
* FIAPBT Pedigree Online de
“BLACK LADY”: http://www.fiapbtpedigree.com/imprimir_ficha.php?idm=es&criterio=326725
* Online Pedigree de “BLACK
LADY”: (No existe en esta base de datos.)
Ramiro Morales y Mariano Peinado intercambiando opiniones
del American Pit Bull Terrier
en Villa Libertykennels, Madrid, España.
villaliberty Senior
Member
Joined: Jul 14, 2009
Posts: 518
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:44 am
monkeywrote:
Thanks
for posting the nice pics. I really enjoy seeing the
old timers. And there dogs. Good stuff...thanks AND
PEACE!!!
Your welcome, it is nothing. I am glad that you liked
this historical information about the American Pit Bull
Terrier. Thank you very much for your kind words.
Right now of today will end my account in this place, but
before I wish to add here some pictures for your enjoy.
Some of this pics never before that now was publicated in none place. I hope that
you like it and I suggest you if you liked all this, that
you save and keep this information in a safe place for
your private collection about the American Pit Bull
Terrier, you never know what could happen tomorrow and
all this could disappear at any time, lol:
1) MAURICE CARVER and DON DIVINE, two great old timers.
“TUFFY” was a very good reproducer and full sister of
CARVER´S "BANDIDO", HUNTER´S "RED
BUCK" and LONG´S (CARVER'S) BABY the MIDNIGHT COWBOY
mother and many more.
CARVER´S “EL LOCO”, was the PATRICK´S “TOMBSTONE” full
brother. CARVER´S “EL LOCO” was a Carver´s gift to Ramiro
Morales. “EL LOCO” was other more extraordinary dog
forgotten over the years.
- CARVER´S “EL LOCO” Online Pedigree: (Not exist in this
database.)
I wish give thanks to my friends Dwight Stubbs (R.I.P.),
Ramiro Morales, Jason Robinson and many more great old
timers and Pit Bull lovers all them, which they was given
to me hundreds of valuable old and historic pictures,
information, etc. for to preserve it and add it to my Pit
Bull reports, articles, etc. I think it is PATRIMONY and
HERITAGE of our noble and marvelous breed dog, the
American Pit Bull Terrier. THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO ALL!!!
“In honour to the truth and the
right, I think we should not close our eyes to allow evil
and injustice BE NORMALIZE within the society in
which we live.”
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En
esta sección del REGISTRO GENEALOGICO DE SEGURIDAD DE LA FIAPBT
llamado FIAPBT Pedigree,podrán
ustedes; Estudiar las diferentes ramificaciones genéticas de esta maravillosa y
noble raza canina, el American PitBull Terrier (APBT); Ver fotografías históricas de ejemplares de
APBT nunca vistas anteriormente en público; Ayudar a combatir la criminalización que
realiza la Ley PPP y la BSL; Crear fácilmente el
pedigree online de su ejemplar o de las camadas que
usted tenga; etc.
Para ver el FIAPBTPedigreeOnline de los perros, haz clic en la foto o en sus
correspondientes nombres.
Para verel FIAPBTPedigreeOnliney las fotografías,
deben cliquear en los nombres y se les abrirá su árbol genealógico delFIAPBT PedigreeOnline. Una vez dentro de suFIAPBTPedigreeOnline, pueden realizar su propio estudio genético
personalizado y a su propia manera o estilo. Cliqueando en los nombres
de los padres por ejemplo, podrá visualizar igualmente suFIAPBT PedigreeOnline de cuatro generaciones, en los
cuales si cliquea en sus fotografías, estás se abrirán en tamaño mayor para que
se puedan ver mejor a los perros. Siguiendo en el Pedigree
Online y cliqueando los nombres de los APBT que aparecen en escala
ascendiente, puede llegar a encontrar o rastrear los ascendientes de los
perros que usted desea estudiar o investigar hasta dos siglos atrás, hasta los
años del 1800, una barbaridad de generaciones, más controlado que las propias
personas. Esta gran cantidad de información genética es algo inédito,
sorprendente y exclusivo, que solo nuestra maravillosa y noble raza canina
posee, el American Pit Bull Terrier.
Para facilitar el estudio genético de
los perros y de la raza misma, facilitamos a los aficionados poder hacerlo
también a través de la base de datos delOnline Pedigree, ya que pensamos que en un momento
determinado el Online Pedigree pudiera facilitar el estudio genético a
los aficionados que ya estén acostumbrados a realizarlo por medio de esta base
de datos. No obstante debemos aclarar, que por medio de esta base de datos el
estudio genético es más confuso, más molesto, más incompleto y menos fiable por
diversos factores, los cuales vienen por culpa de personas mal intencionadas y
desaprensivas, los cuales por diversos oscuros intereses ensucian y perjudican
el honorable nombre y esfuerzo que viene realizando desde hace más de 10 años
el propietario de la base de datos del Online Pedigree. Estos negativos y diversos factores
que tanto perjudican la base de datos del Online Pedigree, los perrerosentendidos en genética de la raza y
aquellos que se han visto afectados directamente en ellos, los conocen
perfectamente y saben muy bien de lo que estamos hablando. Algunos de estos
negativos factores son por ejemplo: Registros de
mestizos como puros APBT; Registros de Bullies o
similares como puros APBT; Falsificaciones de registros de perros que no
corresponden con la realidad; Registros de perros inexistentes para engañar o
estafar a los aficionados; Se realizan infinidad de duplicados de registros
para un mismo perro con propósitos bastante oscuros; etc. etc.
Estos inconvenientes, en la base de
datos de la FIAPBTPedigreeOnline son muy reducidos o nulos, dada a la estricta
vigilancia y control que se realiza constantemente por perreros cualificados sobradamente para
preservar la pureza de raza.
ENGLISH
The American Pit Bull Terrier
Online Pedigreeis a
study or informativemode,
it is not the Official Pedigree. Caution
with the swindlers!!!
